Van's an Ass

[Toxis]

Splork gossips-- 'and btw, there are no level restricts on runes that i know of:)'

[Toxis]

this might make you realize why I'm so mad, soooo many gems popped the other day in group, and we went months and months with little gems popping and almost all gems I got were not when I was leading so....

cannot believe it, I win a gem and I don't get it!
how many f****** groups am I in and I don't get it and now I win and I don't get it!

so please.. can you just see why I'm a lot angry? All those months and not a single gem, MONTHS!!!!!!! Just try to look at it from my point of view and this is coming from someone who's lead most the levels in sloth.

-Brad

[jezer]

Brad, in all due respect, your a broken record. People like you, and they are thankful that you lead. But honestly this bitterness and resentment make you a difficult person at the moment. It's not pleasant to have you join a group at the moment and within minutes you've found something to be bitter and resentful about. Yes, I get ticked off at the game too, how it's works, certain people. I'm not a perfect person. But as long as you kick around these feelings your going through, there is no way out, and it just gets worse and worse. I'm kind of hoping your were drinking when you wrote this. Your asking people here to take sides, to start a war. It's not in any ones interests... even your own.

[van]

A few salient points. I wouldn't address this post, except for the title, which I feel is sort of invitation.

First of all: I will no longer be allowing Toxis into my groups. I don't play well with certain people, and have no interest in doing so. I have no intention of causing problems in groups led by other people; this is strictly my-group/my-policy. Toxis is certainly welcome to apply the same standard to me. This may change later, but for right now, I'm done with Toxis leaving group after group after group because someone hurt his feelings and/or expecting that groups exist for the sole purpose of xping/gearing his endless newbies. His behavior, in my opinion, has been disruptive to the groups I've led. Just ask the people in my group tonight!

Second of all: the gem pop rate being deficient was noticed and adjusted. Thanks, Imms!

Now, for those of you wondering, here's the sequence of events that led to the original post:
(1) I was leading SS XP, with a relatively small group (hitting Theris/Sin's/Ogres/small-UD2.
(2) A random gem popped.
(3) I spun the wheel.
(4) A level 15 necro won.
(5) I said, and man I wish I'd logged this (those who did feel free to jump in): "Van -- I really am not comfortable giving a gem to a newbie, given how in demand they are".
(6) Said newbie (Sira, again, level 15 necro) throws a GIGANTIC fit and left group.
(7) Group completely halts xp activity to discuss (very publicly) the above problems.
(8) Sira logs off.
(7) To nobody's great surprise, Toxis logs on and proceeds to burn up gossip.

Now, as I see it, there are two primary issues to address here:
(1) I'm an ass.
(2) Edit: No issue here, see the thread where Splork responded. Regarded what I thought was a problem with the gem system that turned out not to be the case.

ISSUE 1: I'm an ass.

Yes. Yes I am. Yes. And I am. Did you know that I'm an ass?

More specifically: Most people who've played with me in S3/S4 know that I'm a fairly nice person with a low tolerance for bullshit. Yes, I get irritated easily. Yes, I can be somewhat of a jerk at times. However, I think I go out of my way to be accessible to newbies and offer them assistance when I can. I think I also do my best to help more mature players (in the sense of levels and experience) cycle items in eq groups. If I'm wrong, people can constructively criticize me here, and I'll take the feedback humbly and try to adjust my behavior.

While I'm on the topic, here are the basic loot rules you can expect if you join a group run by me. In fact, due to the nature of this incident, I'm posting the precise text of my FOR THE RECORD alias here.

-----
FOR THE RECORD: Here are my loot rules. Ask if you have questions/concerns!
-----
(1) Calling something in an explicitly labeled xp group doesn't mean I'll hit it.
(2) Gems are strictly randomed, unless the gem is explicitly called by a player. Only the FIRST gem called in a player's gjob will be treated this way.
(3) In any group, you may call only one (1) piece of equipment and only one (1) gem.
(4) 2.calls are ignored in favor of 1.calls.
(5) Newbies (Level 20 and below) will be given any random pops they can use, but will not be eligible for gems or higher level equipment. Exceptions can be made on a case-by-case basis, but must be cleared by me in advance.
-----
Note: If I'm running an eq group and your mob has been down too long, TELL ME. My pinger is buggy and I'm inattentive sometimes.
-----

I welcome comments in this thread about what may be unfair in this, and if I'm ignoring some basic protocol/etiquette issues, please comment after reading the next part of this post.

I particularly welcome comments about #5, because this is primarily driven by players with multiple characters joining groups 'incognito' and aiming for higher level equipment. Notice that the bar is set very low! If you're leaving VK, kudos and call all the eq you want. If you're not there yet, please recognize that higher level players are definitely contributing to the group at a higher level; you'll get there soon enough!

If you don't like these rules (subject to revision after comment): don't join my groups. Simple problem, simple solution.

(Note: I've had a mutual understanding with Dsfren, due to his enormous help to me in my start up in S4, that he could call 1.gem in my groups, also known as the first uncalled gem that popped. In accordance with my newly formulated rules, I will no longer be doing that. Sorry Simon!)

[Edit: Issue #2 belongs in another thread, which I am writing at the time of posting.]

[jezer]

Blah Blah Blah! All we really want to know is do 1's still win on the wheel!

[van]

Hot damn, how could I forget? In my groups, a 1 on the wheel ALWAYS wins. It's just that epic. List above updated!

[jezer]

Good fair rules, I hope all leaders adopt them. There are still some "holes" I know some people will try to exploit. You could go on defining them forever and people will still find a way to be an ignoramus.

1. Calling a mob instead of eq.
Only eq can be called... like calling Solarian could load 3 items, potentially more with randoms. Call the item not the mob. You did say 1 piece of equipment, but generally people do put in the mob name - fine if it only loads one item.

2. Announcing changing a call.
You should grouptell when you change your call, so there can be no quick changes when an item pops.

3. Making new calls after an item has popped.
I personally don't like it when someone gets a pop in group and then wants us to run a new mob next cycle. However if you don't allow for a second call important members could leave your group. Up to the group leader I guess.

4. Calling mobs that exhaust group resources more than others.
When someone calls, kobold sage and someone else calls eternal flame or something in Ravensglade... not very ethical.

5. Making a call that encompasses more than one item.
Eyeglass CP's... etc

You could go on defining them forever... for which the last rule to be applied should be, put others first.

[Kanae]

I have spoken out about this already and will just clarify here. A leader is welcome to do whatever they want, if you don't agree don't follow.

Simply put and to the point. Asked for MY opinion on this specific case. Gems have been stated as being long term items. Items that take a long time to gather and are for the largest part placed on eq a player plans on using in avatar levels. This opens up 2 issues. What is high level eq...
is it eq that is restricted to high levels or is it eq that is wanted by high levels.

loop of burning coals +10 Spell Bonus
Can be worn about the waist by any Apprentice Mage
Keywords: coals-loop-burning

6-13 AP


The stats and level information is from eq page and ingame help file.. is it high level eq...or just high end eq.. would a newbie be allowed to win a random for this item..

my only serious issue with the series of events.. is an item that was not "level restricted" was wheeled. And after said spin .. the newbie that won it was told sorry i don't feel comfortable giving a newbie a high level item..

Personal feeling here if you choose to use the wheel.. let the wheel choose!!

I could care less if you wheeled a chunk of dust and an avatar won or a newbie one. the wheel spoke... let them do as they wish with it.

[Toxis]

Congratz! You just won a gem! But, you're low level, even though gems aren't level restricted AND there's no rule beforehand saying you won't win gems in a wheel SO GEM GOES TO SOMEONE ELSE, UNGRATZ!

-Van

(Your posts were so long winded, I thought I'd just sum it all up for you.)

-Toxis

[reboog]

why can't we be friends?
let us live in harmony
while at gunpoint

[Shyla]

Gems themselves might not be level restrict but my only question is since they cost 5 mil to forge and once put on an item it can't be removed would you be better off giving it to someone that likely has an item they don't plan on changing out or giving to someone that even ifthey have the coins will just attach it to an item they won't be using that long? And I am not saying to not give to newbies I am just pondering about it. I mean if rune could be removed and reattached that would beone thing. But since they can't I would rather have them given to someone that has object to actually attach them to that they will be using a while longer. Just my 2 cents
Deb

[van]

Shorter Toxis:

Mud revolves around me.
I didn't read the post.

To forcefully draw your attention to item #2:

this is primarily driven by players with multiple characters joining groups 'incognito'

Guess we won't be talking in game after all, or grouping much, so my attempts to explain where I was coming from and very clearly announce what I would do in future were obviously wasted. Too bad, I used a lot of wind.

Color me not-caring. Just, in future, please don't dispel me and recall me because your feelings are hurt.

Edit: Noticed this, and realized I have become what I hate!

[ *Scoundrel* Th:7.34 ] Cizin missed all sloth's drama!

I shall return to polite vehicle status. This may require a #GAG Toxis, we'll see... ok, polite starting NOW!

[Toxis]

What all this whole arguement with me boils down to is this...
I thought I won a gem, I felt like you "all the sudden" changed the rules, I felt cheated... (commence with volcanic erruption).

I like you, Van. I don't agree with your decision, but that's fine. No point in dragging out the arguement anymore than that. Sorry if I pissed everyone off, but I felt wronged and when that happens I go nuts.

Besides, I blame the system not the players. No game is foolproof, there's always going to be a problem. Just don't make the rules, and then all the sudden say "nah, one more rule we are going to throw in there *snatches prize back*"

[van]

Ironically, just before you went volcanic, Rubiks was willing to just give you the gem. Perhaps you should rethink your 'going nuts' reaction.

[reboog]

rr;eene;ragerent

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