"Useless" gems

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"Useless" gems

Postby Gorka » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:05 am

Could the immortals look at doing something about recycling so called "Useless Gems?"

Here is a snapshot of live auction at the moment...

a Azurite
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Bloodstone
a Brilliant Green Garnet
a Brilliant Green Garnet
a Brilliant Green Garnet
a Brilliant Green Garnet
a Carnelian
a Carnelian
a Carnelian
a Carnelian
a Carnelian
a Carnelian
a Carnelian
a Chalcedony
a Chalcedony
a Chalcedony
a Chalcedony
a Chalcedony
a Chalcedony
a Chalcedony
a Citrine
a Citrine
a Citrine
a Citrine
a Dark Green Spinel
a Dark Green Spinel
a Deep Blue Spinel
a Jasper
a Jasper
a Jasper
a Moss Agate
a Moss Agate
a Moss Agate
a Moss Agate
a Orange Zircon
a Peridot
a Peridot
a Red Spinel
a Salmon Pink Garnet
a Salmon Pink Garnet
a Salmon Pink Garnet
a Salmon Pink Garnet
a Zircon

Obviously gems are not "useless" at all... and we love the gem system, and more recently the changes and upgrades... but once a player has finished socketting there eq with specific gems, especially those of the more frequently popping t1 variety, they do become "useless" to the player. There are various degrees of uselessness...

* I don't need the gem but I can trade it.
* I don't need the gem but I can sell it for a few coins.
* I don't need the gem and neither does anyone else.
* Gem is junked, or left lying on the ground where it loads.
* Gem becomes a laughing stock and the butt of player jokes

It's become apparent that some gems have already reached the last stage... Although it would be easy to single out players who are selling them on auction as "having too many," I don't think that's true... I suspect the truth of the matter is actually more widespread, as my own list of t1's looks similar to live auction and the mobs I run don't pop gems. It must be also taken into consideration that for the last couple of years, before the changes and upgrades, t1's were the overwhelming majority of gem pops.

I would stop short of saying there is an over supply of t1's... as one might assume by looking at this list... I notice Chyroprase and Eye Agate are strangely absent from the list of t1's for sale... the reality is, some of these gems were never really valuable, and now they have approached junk status. Personally, I need at least 8 more Chyroprases, but would prefer 18 more...

My suggestion would be to add value to "useless gems." Make completed runes sellable for a few drachma at the weavers, or a nice amount of gold coins based on there tier level or perceived player value. Another idea would be to trade a completed rune for metaphoric gemstone preferably at the tier above the rune... giving the player a gamble at something better. Perhaps some gems could be adapted to cover slots where people need 10... specifically, neck and wrist sockets. For example, Bloodstone could become another variant of a tX wrist socket, to lessen the burden on people requiring 10 of a specific gem like Chyroprases/Tomb Jades/GYT...

Personally I like the idea that a t1 Rune = 1 Random t2 Gem, and that a t2 Rune = 1 Random t3 Gem. Perhaps there are other ideas? But could we just do something?

I think the current gem system recently implemented is fine... but a recycle system for unwanted gems would be welcomed and restore that fact that every gem is valuable.

Gimme a G! Gimme a EM! Gimme a Bloodstone! :|
Gimme a G! Gimme a ORKA!
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby *teker* » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:19 pm

I have a really hard time with the idea that gems are useless. I understand that some runes are preferred and that there are conflicts as far as equipment positions, but useless? You get 15 or so extra equipment slots with gems and that's a lot of opportunity to improve your stats - even if it's not "the best" rune at a given position.

That being said, there are some areas where we could look at making some stats more influential in gameplay, which would in turn make those gems more desirable. Some of this has already been talked about in the forum and in private, but I would look at:

Saving Breath:
I am investigating moving forward with migrating shifted breath weapons to new code that would use saving breath similarly to how saving spell is used on most damage spells. This would make these gems more valuable since they could be used to attack rather than just in defense. Saving poison could probably be enhanced in a similar fashion.

Saving Petrification:
I'm really not sure what to do with this one - there seem to be very few spells that use it.

Charisma:
It's been discussed on the forum before that charisma is really only used when singing an attack song. It's been suggested to use it to increase/decrease the effects of other bard songs. Usually in paper RPGs charisma modifies how many humanoid followers you could attract and their morale during combat but those aren't really things that Sloth provides.


The other gems on your list are connected with stats that I think are useful. Some of them seem overpriced, IMHO.
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Filk » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:04 pm

Maybe simple gambling wouldnt hurt anything. Merge two gems and get another random gem of same tier. Sunk of gems that least valueble. And no real influence on gem economy because of sucky random :)

Personally i think that most more then 50% of t1 gems are pointless atm. They do nothing good or there is better gem for same slot.

Changing saving breath to improve forms breath skills sounds great. I also would like to confirm, if spell damage affects breath of forms, just to be sure :)

Saving poison changes will not change anything now. Too few forms use it, and they are not top ones which will be maxed out by eq. It could work though, if some complex forms skills rebalance will happen adding poison breath effect to more of them.
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Gorka » Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:32 pm

When I said useless gems... obviously I was using a subjective term. This could include valuable gems, that are no longer needed by a player once they have them... This does not mean the gem is not useful, simply that the player no longer has a use for them.

The point I am trying to drive home is it's sad to have so many "useless" gems, when you need so many other "useful" gems. It would be nice to recycle the useless for useful, but there is a certain point of saturation with some of these gems that I think we have reached, such as bloodstones, carnelians and chalcedony. I think Teker points out these are probably objectively useless gems also.

I think there are options that these gems could be changed too, HP Regen and Hit are underdone. Resists are not represented, a perm spell such as water breath is also another option.

Preferably though, players want a use for gems that they don't need anymore or that no one needs, this is my argument. Whether it's 50 bloodstones or 50 Tomb Jades, what do you with gems you don't need if they can't be traded?
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Teron » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:45 am

Imho the gem of the next tier is worth 3, not 5, gems of the previous tier.

I don't really care, how I get to disperse my useless t1 gems. It could be a trade in of a t1 rune for 5 random t1 gems or a random t2 gem. Exchanging gems for gold seems a waste of time and opportunity.

Teker, bard boosting group morale not to be afraid of the wails of the undead already exists in Sloth. I am not sure it is affected by charisma.
Bards also boost +hitroll with the brothers in arm/valor song, which is the warrior morale boost as far as I understand - which again isn't affected by charisma.

The number of ppl affected is not, but should be, affected by charisma. A extra follower would be nice as well, considering a bard isn't a necro or a cleric.

Since bard is tooted as a support character and he can't have a single-target item to use his cry for solo well, then he should be able to boost his group with higher charisma. It's only logical to scale ppl affected and song bonus with charisma.

Also look at the http://www.slothmud.org/wp/live-info/song-statistics and see for yourself, which of the charisma-affected songs are in the top. Cry is #6, top 1-5 aren't affected by charisma - this proportion is the same across the months. Those songs, which are affected by charisma, trail with 20-30 attempts.

To Oboe, who says that I don't know how to play a bard, I'll say that I'd rather have a choice between going max charisma for a large group or balance between charisma and ac/other stats, rather than being stuck in the frontline.
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Gorka » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:22 am

Many thanks to Breeze for providing a gem trading mob the past two days, which allowed us to trade 5 of our undesirable gems and 500k, for a random gem.

Personally, I traded 95 undesirable gems, which meant I had 19 random gems for the cost of 9.5m gold coins. From those 19 trades, 4 or 5 of these gems were more desirable.

Although it would seem expensive... 95 gems and 9.5m gold for 4 or 5 good gems, I can't say I have any regrets as those 95 gems just don't factor into my plans, or they were t1's where I know I will be able to get them back. There were some comments that trading 5 for 1 was expensive, but I note no one had an issue doing it when the chance was offered... :lol: I suspect probably more than 1000 undesirable gems probably got traded over this time by everyone.

Although most of us are "good" for another 3 months or so... I suspect we will find ourselves in a similar predicament in 3 months, once our bags of t1's have filled up again... which leads me to ask, could this gem trading mob be left permanently in game, or will this be rolled out at the whim of the imms occasionally? There will also be a few people who missed out this time around, and it's actually in our favor that these people also get a chance to trade in there gems, because it provides a better trading pool for the rest of us when they get more valuable gems that they don't want.

I've been trying to "think like an imm" as to why this mob couldn't be a perm feature at the sprawling temple and dreams complex, but can't think of a reason why that could be dangerous?

Thanks again Breeze, that was "mighty!" Much appreciated.
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Ker » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:10 am

Good day,

I have 200+ of these so called "useless" gems. Any chance a future similar event will show? Both came on 5-6am my time unfortunately.

Come to think of it, I've had these "useless" gems dating as far back as 2013. Nasty.

Yay, Dr
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby *Breeze* » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:52 pm

i am on my night shift schedule atm. i will probably do a day run in 2 weeks when my day schedule begins.

the recycle event will most likely not be a permanent thing (especially not at those rates)
but i do plan on doing it again on occasion.

i suggest you don't bother the other imm's about it since its my test mob/code

// regards
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Ker » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:30 am

Good day,

Breeze tells you 'wanna trade your gems now or wait 2 weeks'
Breeze tells you 'logged on specifically cos i saw you were logged in'
Breeze tells you '5 gems (dont have to match and 500k gold)'
You tell Breeze 'wow im touched, will sacrifice 2 goats on your name today'
Breeze tells you 'just 2 ??'
You tell Breeze 'hey cmon, village ppl will kill me if i take more'
Breeze tells you 'lol'

And that was the end of our Friday business trade talk, Breeze was also kind enough to :

# Trade a T1 rune for 3 T1 Gems. (This is to facilitate the 5 gem trade at Felicia)

A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a
Moonstone in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Silver
Pearl in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Eye
Agate in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a
Brilliant Green Garnet in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Opal in
your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Purple
Star Sapphire in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a
Freshwater Pearl in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a
Champagne Pearl in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Opal in
your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Jacinth
in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Zircon
in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Brown
Red Spinel in your hands!
A metamorphic capriciktalk DRUM ROte gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a
Champagne Pearl in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Lapus
Lazuli in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a Jasper
in your hands!
A metamorphic capricite gemstone shudders violently as it reforms into a
Alexandrite in your hands!

Conclusion after 10mil+ gold, and around 120gems:

a Jacinth
a Jasper
a Alexandrite
a Jasper
a Jacinth
a Opal
a Eye Agate
a Jacinth
a Purple Star Sapphire
a Alexandrite
a Smokey Quartz
a Gray White Diamond
a Obsidian
a Colorless Sapphire
a Purple Star Sapphire
(Some gems were recycled and definitely hurt during the making of this post)

Have fun! Dr
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Tuck » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:31 pm

My 50 cents.

Some of us have many useless runes forged. Please let us trade runes to gems or gamble runes to gems.

Thanks for this event!
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Teron » Sat Mar 25, 2017 2:53 am

Agreed, though a fair trade for a t1 rune would be 5 t1 gems, which can in turn be traded for the capricite gem.
or a straight trade for the capricite gem.
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Josiah » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:56 am

Wow, I go visit Hyrule for a week and miss out on the Great Vault Clearing of 2017!

Great event, sorry I missed it!

No regrets, Hyrule was amazing.
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby *Breeze* » Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:49 am

Teron wrote:Agreed, though a fair trade for a t1 rune would be 5 t1 gems, which can in turn be traded for the capricite gem.
or a straight trade for the capricite gem.


How is that fair? I am already letting you guys recycle gems. Only way I would do 5 gems for 1 rune is if I introduced a fee most likely 1 or 2 drachma.

Rune trades are done manually by hand by me as I am not adding in 1 forge per rune.

If you can properly justify why there should be 5 and not 3 I will consider it, but just because it takes 5 to forge is not a good justification.
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby *Splork* » Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:26 pm

Some of us have many useless runes forged. Please let us trade runes to gems or gamble runes to gems.


They are useful to someone, pass them down... :lol:
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Re: "Useless" gems

Postby Teron » Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:05 am

Breeze, I store t1 gems in runes, because:
- there's plenty of them
- storing them in the drachma bag is pointless: it's too small to fit all the spares
- storing them is easier in runes
- runes are how ppl actually use the gems.

However, t1 runes aren't worth even a t2 gem, so for me it's not worth trading them in the game.

So runes are how t1 gems stored, you only saw t1 gems that were less than 5 each.
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