New Spells/Spell Bonus/Firewind

[12345]

Does haste let you cast faster than 2-1-2-1? I thought the help file said it let you sneak in an extra attack, which seems more along the lines of fluidity. Not that have any problems with mages having it, it just doesn't seem like it would help them a lot

[Weasel]

hmm so haste is like avatar attack (avatar 36).. except it's at druid level 31 instead.. or avatar-druid 31 for longer lasting haste..
so does that mean an avatar warrior with druid class can get 2 additional attacks per round??? or is haste a prime-only spell?
Still doesn't help anyone without druid class..

btw, convocation is a very nice spell for leaders, thanks.

[Guinex]

Last i heard those druid spells were being moved to mage, I am guessing these spells were possibly part of the cause of our recent crashes. Perhaps that is why they have not been moved as of yet to mage. Other than that i don't recall hearing that they were staying druid spells.

[Weasel]

I don't get it - if haste becomes a mage spell instead of druid, what's the point other than having to use up more mana casting haste to achieve the same level of offensiveness ..that is assuming that the one extra round from haste makes up for the spelldam lost and the additional HP cost from increased fight duration..

( O)(o )

maybe I should just shuddup.

[brand]

the only point i can think of that then both brand and weasel would be able to cast haste, which i would like very much

[blackmore]

[quote="12345":2g24s3pk]
If the actual problem, which is saves, is fixed, it will effectively double the power of every spell you cast. ie. You'll get supercharged instead of nerfed, because not only will that lost spelldam blast through, but all the normal damage that you've been thinking you were getting, but weren't.[/quote:2g24s3pk]

Yes and no. If mobs that always made saves before suddenly miss half their saves, it will be nice on big mobs where things even out, but those saves cutting spell bonus in half will still (potentially) suck on xp mobs. Take paupers on Oly for instance. If they have 250 hps, and your winds used to do 275, you'd never get hit and do a pretty decent xp run. Now, your winds are 200 half the time and 400 the other half. You're going to take a round of attacks half the time when before you never did.

Please don't point out how oversimplified this post is, the concept is valid whether or not you figure in getting 2 winds before the mob attacks, or losing conc on your second wind or the variance in hps mobs have or damage wind does.

(first part corrected to say what I meant)

[12345]

I think you said that backwards, but it's still a valid point. ie. mobs currently always save.

There is another half to that though, which is something that was confusing me a while back when I was trying to understand why Cry of the Avatars was effectively a better spell than wind.

As written, firewind is a great spell. However, in practice, it's not. When considering the balance of the game (class vs class), the gods have been assuming it's 2x as powerful as it effectively is. If you look at the resulting damage totals, that creates a balance problem.

To builders, it's not a problem (class vs mob). They design mobs so that survive a certain number of stabs/blasts and do x amount of damage. So to them, the error is transparent.

Suddenly, someone realized that you've been using an underpowered spell. Fixing this would be a giant plus in terms of bring mage up to parr with the other classes. This is the issue that I'm hoping gets resolved. Though it doesn't affect me personally, I think it's important to the balance of the game.

Unfortunatlely, since that most likely means also fixing saves, firewind will no longer be a static damage spell. ie. It may do 2x or 1/2, take your pick. By definition, you'll sometimes need 2x as much mana to kill the same mob. Luck of the roll.

Theoretically, the areas should be rebalanced after this happens so that they work the way the builders intended. However, assuming that the new saved version is weaker than the old saved version, this will create an immediate problem in terms of mob survivability.

So I guess the question is basically: Would you rather have an underpowered class or wait for the areas to be rebalanced?

[Avatar]

I'd hate to add more flames (heh, firewinds) to the fire, but this is a reminder of how silly the early AD&D save system was. It'd be cool to have saves actually mean something in terms of playing. For example, some classes (thieves, etc) might have faster reflexes. Against those types of targets, you (as the mage) might want to choose a lower level spell that saves vs. a different attribute. Your base spell may do less damage, but if the target saves less often you might be far better off.

Of course, there again the AD&D save system was silly. Spells were one large group. Other rules systems have had better, more interesting solutions.

Also, on the spells messages, it may be complicated to implement but a different message (to the caster only) might be a decent solution. Instead of seeing a mob engulfed in blazing burning winds, maybe you'd see the mob hop about trying to avoid the effect. Of course, for a robust system might have different messages for different species etc.

Well, back to work. AFK!

[_edd_]

[quote="12345":3czszlnc]Theoretically, the areas should be rebalanced after this happens so that they work the way the builders intended. However, assuming that the new saved version is weaker than the old saved version, this will create an immediate problem in terms of mob survivability.

So I guess the question is basically: Would you rather have an underpowered class or wait for the areas to be rebalanced?[/quote:3czszlnc]

The question is do you really have so much time to wait for rebalancing? It would take ages. Actually I believe it won't do. And the trouble with rebalancing is that you can't just reduce saves for a mob because it will affect not only mages but all classes and it will change balance for area in whole. So I would reduce wind's basic damage but have previous version of spell_dam/tard_bonus counting.

[Falsra]

For the recent spellbonus changes...

What was a reason for adding spellbonus to minor spells ?
Since almost all spellbonus items are high mage restricted,
lowlevels and midlevels mages just unable to taste spellbonus
with minor offensive spells.
From another side, highlevels mages never cast magic missiles and fireballs.
So, it seems to _me_ adding spellbonus to minor offensive spells is
kinda useless.

But, this potentially useless change required to change main formula for
spellbonus, seriously tweaking spellbonus for major offensive spells.

Some mages probably would want to reconsider their charbuild, focused
on maxing spellbonus. But, as a rule, they already spent 1750dr
buying quest spellbonus rings+robe.

Dont you think, in case of new spellbonus formula would stay ingame
forever, it would be at least fair to let players sell their spellbonus quest
items for the same price they bought them.

[Leaf]

Drum Roll Please .....

So when are they going to mess with saves on Cry of Avatar?!?

[Aleksey]

Totaly disagree with Deju and 12345 about spelsaves on mobs and that new spell damage formula will do more damage in future than fue days ago, Unless thay will increase 'wind' damage or change/remove that 1/2 rate.

Increasing cap also will be silly step in eyes of people who collected in past 120-130 speldamage and one day by one man decision was forced throw away all extra and cut self to 90/70/50/30

Fue days ago each 9 from 10 winds was halved , each imm without thinking increasing and increasing spelsaves on mobs, and its bulshit lie in splork's post that only high mobs (was talking with many imms about that meaning high mob and all imms under that word understand own trough what is 'high mob')

Hrm and one more thing, speldamage equip effect was reduced 2s, and speldamage drachma equip price stays same,undead controll drachma equip effect was reduced 5s times and prices was not changed.

To Falsra post: Oleg, speldamage was real bonus for lowbies. On valk in past fireball and frost was affected by spelbonus(wind version spells for newbs) and you right only few spellbonus items for lowbies .... ie 1(belt with 10 spellbonus) actualy was fealable difference between lowbie without it and with.

And any way flame or not flame nothing will be changed
Splork knows what best for sloth and in splork we trust:D

[12345]

I'm curious if anyone is actually aware how saves work in this game...

[Weasel]

I'm sorry, but this is really frustrating. I now get maybe 30 seconds of play in and I then need to regen again for 7 minutes. Honestly this is just ridiculous. If this is how it's supposed to work then thank gawd it never did because the mud would have died a long time ago.

[12345]

I think it's safe to say it still needs work Weasel.