Game, set, match.

[Weasel]

[quote="Mosaix":30ftjoqi]Weasel you give the Bush Administration a free pass on its socialst actions, so your argument about Obama being one goes no-where. [/quote:30ftjoqi]
Are you serious? For a start, Bush will be gone shortly, so ranting about him is pointless. AGAIN you conveniently forget that the Senate and House have been Democrat majority for the last 2 years. All these bailouts are sponsored by Democrats, pushed through by Democrats, and approved by the Democrats in a Congress that is a Democrat majority. If you want to [i:30ftjoqi]blame[/i:30ftjoqi] someone for these socialist bailouts, then put the blame where it belongs - with the Democrats. What part of that is so hard to understand? The evidence could not be more clear.

This is not a case of wearing out liberal and using socialist instead.. damn is that the only argument you could come up with? Really grasping at straws in your denial. Democrat party is liberal, that is what it calls itself. Obama is socialist, that is what I call him and so do many others, because he clearly is. I call it how I see it. If you can't even get past that, then there is little point continuing.

FYI I have not watched or heard Rush Limbaugh for at least 6 months, and before that very rarely. I just don't. Sorry if I don't fit your stereotype. ONCE AGAIN I am having to explain to you that I am not pro McCain. WHY IS THIS SO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND? Actually I know why. You keep trying to classify me as some right-wing nut so you can feel happy saying "Oh, he's just some far right-wing trash" and then you can go on happily ignoring the socialist facts about Obama. Clearly it bothers you that I don't fit in that cubbyhole since I am not pro McCain, and that is what makes you so angry. God forbid you should actually look at the facts and think for yourself though.

This is pointless.

[Weasel]

I'm going to try very hard not to respond to this thread any more. I can't guarantee I wont, but I'll try. The reason is simple: futility. I've tried to present what is wrong with Obama. You have failed to refute those points or barely even address them, but rather just ignore and deflect onto Bush or call me names or go on some other tangent - anything rather than deal with the issues. I sincerely hope things don't turn out the way I fear they will with Obama as POTUS, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. If that's the bed you want to sleep in without at least checking it out for bugs first, then good luck to you. Just don't say you weren't warned.

[Poggle]

Dude, yes it is futile to try to change people's minds if they're set on something.

...which is why I have only participated in this thread to the extent of correcting things that were obviously false or flawed.

I suppose it seems like I'm in opposition to you, but it's really only that you post the most by far....and you don't seem to fact check much.

When you are referring to these democrat sponsored bailouts...are you referring to the Paulson Plan (aka original bailout bill, aka EESA) by any chance?

The Republican Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson?

(he's a very democrat)

[reboog]

by the way, hi

[alias]

Rebog has the best post in this in thread.

[jezer]

Rebog: bad nick length.

[Tap]

Alias wrote a long time ago [quote:33t0v2r5]Got pulled over the other day and first thing I told the cop was I have a permit for personal protection and my weapon was in my center console of the car. Before I could blink I was jerked out of my vehicle and searched by one officer while another went through my car looking for "stuff". After not finding any "stuff", other than my glock, I was asked to produce my permit and on doing so was given a warning for running a yellow light and told to have a nice day.[/quote:33t0v2r5]

Unfortunately, this is become a recurring theme in the not-so-distant future. You will have 4-5 officers show up at YOUR HOME and ask to practice a random search of it for guns. Should you refuse, you will give just cause and they will procurr a warrant and search it anyways, possibly arresting you in the process. Yeah, i'm an Alex Jones junkie.


Overall, while I am an optimist, the next 10-15 years are rather bleak. And that's at best, I get depressed when I think about how bad it "can"
get. Fortunately, we do love in a great country and should any one person
should try to "impose" a total new way of life for all..well..I'm sure someone will step up to the plate and "correct" the problem. These things have a way of working themselves out.

[Rynquald]

Trouble is, it's not only one person. Democracy only protects freedom until you get the first fascist in power, then good luck using a vote to maintain (or restore) your civil liberties.

They're already preparing to use the military to respond to whatever the president decides to define as "terrorism". And you can be sure they'll go through the confiscation (after registration of course) of firearms before suppression of civil liberties becomes overt enough to push a significant fraction of the population to believe that direct resistance is needed.

It's hard to imagine somewhere like the US turning into the next in a long line of fascist states. But all the signs point to a government determined to slowly increase its grip on the lives and freedoms of its people. There's no reason to assume they want anything less than total control.

There will be no outside influences to stop it either, the UN won't stand up to the US and the UK is even further down this road, along with the other potential world powers.

In the end, power does corrupt. And IMO very, very few leaders wouldn't create a totalitarian state if they thought they could get away with it.

[Medios]

[quote="Tap":14498rxj]Alias wrote a long time ago [quote:14498rxj]Got pulled over the other day and first thing I told the cop was I have a permit for personal protection and my weapon was in my center console of the car. Before I could blink I was jerked out of my vehicle and searched by one officer while another went through my car looking for "stuff". After not finding any "stuff", other than my glock, I was asked to produce my permit and on doing so was given a warning for running a yellow light and told to have a nice day.[/quote:14498rxj]

Unfortunately, this is become a recurring theme in the not-so-distant future. You will have 4-5 officers show up at YOUR HOME and ask to practice a random search of it for guns. Should you refuse, you will give just cause and they will procurr a warrant and search it anyways, possibly arresting you in the process. Yeah, i'm an Alex Jones junkie.


Overall, while I am an optimist, the next 10-15 years are rather bleak. And that's at best, I get depressed when I think about how bad it "can"
get. Fortunately, we do love in a great country and should any one person
should try to "impose" a total new way of life for all..well..I'm sure someone will step up to the plate and "correct" the problem. These things have a way of working themselves out.[/quote:14498rxj]

First of all a car and a home are 2 totally different birds. The cops can pretty much do anything they want to you while you are in your car. Your home is another thing all together. There is no way under the current law that they will be able to obtain a just warrant for a home search refusal. Especially random. They will have to make up a bogus domestic call to your home or possibly a fake burglary in progress. Or they can just get DNR to send a forest ranger to your home for supposed poaching. One of these 3 things will allow them to come in to your home for "probable cause". However they aren't going to be able to make up bogus claims for everyone.

The problem lies with this. Many people don't take lightly to anyone, including the cops, just busting into their homes. Cops will get shot which will do one of two things. If successful they will use the media to portray guns as the horrible things and try to make these decent homeowners look like vile criminals. If they get that done then guns go away. Otherwise people start to get wary of the law and the govt. They start tightening their belts and getting ready for their house to be next. Then the govt has a big problem. There might be plenty of tax revenue but there is no way in hell they have enough people to enforce something like this.

The only way I see it as a possibility is this scenario. President declares martial law due to some "terrorist" or otherwise incident. Martial law would allow the military to be used against civilians. Systematically they go through the cities first, leaving the country side for last. Then eventually you got a war like Afghanistan except its a redneck in the smoky mountains that just wants to keep his pistol.

[Tap]

You make valid points however,

With the current database of gunowners..once you are ordered to surrender your weapons within a given time frame, you then go onto a separate list. Most people are sheep and will gladly( and out of fear) turn in their weapons under a false promise of being returned later. Those who don't give up so easily, who are now on a second list, will in fact, have officers coming to their place of residence and demand for said gun owner to comply immediately or be arrested. If homeowner states gun has been stolen etc..he must immediately have home searched. This has already been loosely passed within past few years. Too tired tonite to list sources but give me a few days..I'll gladly post links.

[quote:jilhqvw4]Then eventually you got a war like Afghanistan except its a redneck in the smoky mountains that just wants to keep his pistol.[/quote:jilhqvw4]
Well, not only. I don't even own a gun although I do have a license...If NObama wins the election then I most definitely will be making my first purchase. Oh.. and I live surburbs of Atlanta.

[Weasel]

hmm. Your word against half a dozen cops saying you gave probable cause for entry.. sorry, you lose. And don't think the president doesn't have the power to 'temporarily' waive Constitutional Rights - we've already seen it with the Patriot Act.

Think.

[jezer]

I've never been an "American Basher" (I'm still not) in fact I've been pro America when it's come to world politics and stuff. But I'm sorry to say, after analysing this thread, your countries ideals are a sorry pile of crap. It seems everyone is trying to exercise there free right to do anything they want (within reason), and they wonder why the heck they hack so many people off in the process. Go figure...

Maybe if you addressed the real issues of selfishness and greed... people wouldn't feel they had to exercise there rights all the time... and less people would get hacked off... You talk about your RIGHTS? That's exactly whats making the problems worse! You've all become so divided cause your all acting in your own RIGHTS and self interest, which always rips someone else off, and it's tearing your country apart. It's a vicious cycle!

One man steals,
Another man puts him in jail,
So the other man arms himself,
So another man arms himself against those armed...

It just goes on and on and on... all because selfish people believe in exercising there rights. It's a question of morality... and that's your real problem... Until people are prepared to put others first, and it starts with you as an individual - exercising your rights only adds to problems. You can't have a free America when your all exercising your rights on everyone else.

[Mosaix]

[img:12hheb3c]http://www.bloops.org/images/weasel_stfu_1.jpg[/img:12hheb3c]

[Weasel]

[img:2upq3e7f]http://revistes.upc.es/wiki/images/f/f2/Rofl-mao.jpg[/img:2upq3e7f]

[Rynquald]

Oh of course, all the problems are caused by the fact that people have rights. Everything would work so much better if people would just stop going on about "freedom of expression", "habeas corpus", "right to self-defence" and all the other silly little things enshrined in the foundation laws of free nations.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of nations throughout history that restricted actions and speech to maintain perfect order. United under the flag of progress and equality, where no one was selfish or greedy enough to want to gain more than anyone else, and the people who decided what was acceptable and what wasn't were incorruptible and perfect. Oh wait...

[/sarcasm]