R.I.P. Heath

[Weasel]

yes, yes, I know it [i:1t93wv9r]looks[/i:1t93wv9r] like a one dollar note, and the serial number on it indeed is that of a registered US Treasury one dollar note, and the denomination states one dollar, and it has a picture of George Washington on it, and it even says "in God we trust" right above the word "one", however I [i:1t93wv9r]believe[/i:1t93wv9r] and trust and therefore [i:1t93wv9r]know[/i:1t93wv9r] that it is in fact a one million dollar note, and insist you accept it as payment for your house, your car, your sister, and what's left in that bag of chips you're eating. Not that I have any empirical evidence whatsoever.

kthx.

[jezer]

Not sure what weasel just said... translation?

I try and separate the words "truth" and "fact/belief." I think there needs to be a separation, the dictionary may not back my thoughts, as truth has a bunch of different meanings which confuses everything...

*Truth to me, is something beyond the natural. (It's spiritual, not locked by time and matter, always existed and never changes) Ether
*Fact/beliefs are something that exist in the natural realm... often debated by man whether they are true or false.

Money exists, it's value is agreed by man. I would stop short of calling it's value "the truth," but rather refer to it as being a fact or a belief. (It's only by common agreement money is worth anything...)

Truth to me, is a word I try to reserve for spiritual things beyond time, space and matter. Sometimes the English language is too generic...

[Zukt]

[quote:1wzrs11q]Not sure what weasel just said... translation? [/quote:1wzrs11q]
Its basically that you're engaging in nonsense solipsism that while very fun for Philosophy 101, doesn't exactly give you useful predictive models that explain things.

Jezer, I'm being generous when I'm telling you you just aren't equipped to have this debate. You are engaging in epistimilogical wankery rather than arguing any points. In terms of actual evidence, there simply isn't anything convincing for any creationist model. The best you can come up with is some superfluous intelligent design agent that would do everything that evolution does except its 'intelligent.'

Now if you actually have objections to the theory of evolution, why it doesn't satisfy as a model, we might actually have something to discuss. But you don't. Further if you have a more satisfactory model for explaining origin of species that accounts for the fossil evidence, we certainly have something to discuss. But again, you dont.

Spiritualism is all fine and well for you to dwell on, but its useless for creating models. Whats the origin of the Empire State building? Now according to all the evidence that we have, photographs, construction debris, and very old workers who claimed to helped construct it, I'd say it was an engineered artifact of human civilization. Now I'm going to create some alternative creationist model that basically declares 'God Made It' in 1950, right when he made the rest of the universe complete with an illusionary history. Who's to say I'm wrong? You weren't there, and even if you think you were these are just illusionary memories made by 'God'

This solipsist excursion is a fun way of imagining nothing really exists, but its a bloody awful way to actually operate.

[quote:1wzrs11q]My bet is one day it's edited by stubborn atheist evolutionists, and the next day self righteous creationists. [/quote:1wzrs11q]
If you actually read the thread you posted you'd realize it was brought up by someone wholly ignorant of what scientific theory actually is.

Creationists are at best ignorant, and at worst very smart about making sure they don't think too hard about some things.

Tell you what, for fun, since you seem to enjoy the whole sky daddy concept: Supposing God exists, either God is an asshole, an idiot, or a wimp.

[Weasel]

[quote="jezer":2b10uruo]Not sure what weasel just said... translation?[/quote:2b10uruo]
just having some fun

[quote="jezer":2b10uruo]*Truth to me, is something beyond the natural. ...Fact/beliefs are something that exist in the natural realm... often debated by man whether they are true or false.[/quote:2b10uruo]
by 'natural', you mean physical, yes?

..or was this whole thread a figment of my imagination? Perhaps it was a figment of [i:2b10uruo]your[/i:2b10uruo] imagination, and I am only a part of that imagination, and therefore would cease to exist beyond your perception of reality should you cease to stop imagining me.. and does this, therefore, make you the omnipotent Creator, and my own perceived conscious a complete myth, supported only by a few synapses in your brain? Do you even have a brain? Perhaps you are actually a bowl of petunias?

THERE IS NO SPOON.

[Rynquald]

Heh, I was already thinking of posting a Matrix quote when I got far enough down Weasel's post to see the spoon thing

[jezer]

Nod,

Someone get Weasel an exit....

[Clink]

I'll end this creation versus evolution debate right now:

Kjartan and his pals created SlothMud. After that it has evolved.

So you are both right. That is all.

[Weasel]

The Gods have spoken.

[Tap]

[Avatar]

I'd say if you're interested in these things, you might enjoy some philosophy classes / books. They get into these questions in detail, what is knowledge, how do we prove things, etc. Truth as a word in general use can mean a lot of things sure, but in certain discussions you can pretty narrowly define what you mean by the word so other people do understand. At least the basic philosophy classes might be interesting.

Creationism is pretty scary. If you haven't seen it, Frontline discussed creationism and the legal debates that are ongoing in primary education. It's pretty clear that some people follow and believe in creationism just because they are 'followers' and they aren't interested in any reason. The more scary aspect is those people who invented creationism, publicize it, and publish the textbooks. To them, it's a calculated way to introduce their religious beliefs into the public school system.

Of course I'm sharing some of my personal bias here, so I'll just wrap up this comment.

[*juggleblood*]

Is it really that scary tho? Seems like the smart kids eventually see thru the masquerade anyway. And the dumb ones, well.... If we could only figure out a way to keep them from voting.... hold elections during the Indy 500 maybe?

[Tap]

What's scary is that you people are still beating a dead Heath, horse I mean.

[Medios]

I like what Zukt says but I think it is wholly ignorant to dismiss other dimensions and or parallel universes. We cannot comprehend more than 4 dimensions, what if our sun is an electron for another world. It seems egotistical to think we are the most powerful beings in the realm. If life can so easily self-form then there should be plenty of other worlds with much more time to cook.

To argue that all matter came into existence with the big bang is along the same lines are arguing about God. If matter and energy are interchangeable and matter cannot be created nor destroyed then the amount of energy/matter in this universe has to remain constant. If God cannot exist because of some scientific method then where did this matter/energy come from. It always existed? That sounds like what they say about God. So either

1. God always existed and created life.
2. Matter/energy always existed and created life.

Wow striking differences!!!

Where is the hatred coming from. If scientists quit sticking their noses up every time an ignorant citizen posed a question then maybe they could gain some ground. But as long as "educated" people talk down to everyone then I say stay bitter and stick to your guns and religion.

[*juggleblood*]

[img:1p3f1h01]http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/axp090909/super_retard_stfu.jpg[/img:1p3f1h01]

[Medios]

I didn't know Jason wore a Superman costume to your get together.