**Revised quint40 light options**

[*Krom*]

There was already .4 ac available for light. I think this is more than sufficient, seeing as there is no other permanent ac for lights at all. You can already reach -12 ac at 3x40, look at calin and I think Bomb or Bombard who did it, and Stryker at least one who did it at low level avatar.

As with previous equipment updates, the point was not to extend the power level of the items that were already the premium choices and the main selections, but to catch some of the other options up to these and have a wider variety of viable choices.

Also, I dont understand your argument about taking away your ability to solo. This is why you have equipment modes, your soloing gear is not going to be your -12 gear most likely. Looking at last weeks top 20 lists, I see you were 4th overall in the mud in soloing exp. The guy right above you had about the same exp and put minimal effort into it running at -11 +13 or -10 +17, and is all old school as well, so I know it can be done without the big damage. Is your mana regen and ability to take out some big mobs less than some other classes? Yes, it might be, but not everything can be equal and some classes will be good at some things while others will not.

The one thing I am aware of and have been trying to make some changes for, is that new school tanks do have an advantage, especially for group tanking. Every new tankl that comes along should not have to be a wa mo cl ne or last 2 classes swapped, for instance. Thief (and warrior for that matter) could be made better supporting classes, and that is a project I am working on persuading others up here we need to address.

[Hotara]

I would suppose weasel's argument stems from the fact that there is now an unlimited ac cap for warrior primes, but, however, they may only hit -12 with anything available ingame (inc. drachma). I would suppose that is a valid argument considering that he as a war prime is only getting -1 ac more than other classes (albeit w/ warrior in them).


Secondly, saying someone who is 3x40 or so, with about -12 ac shows that there is no progress in terms of ac, all the way into avatarhood, again somewhat proving weasel's point although I would not make that into a comparison, for it's akin to comparing apples and oranges.


I do realize that no-ac-cap is a relatively new thing, and I'm pretty sure newer equipments might be on the way to help out with that and therefore all I can tell weasel is, chill mate, I'm sure it's coming.


I have to agree with Balrog over the wa/mo/x/x tank syndrome. However do take note that these classes usually cap out at about 400ma, and about 1200 hp. Take a wa/ca/ca/ca, who easily reaches 1000 hp, with some stacking up to 700+ mana (which is somewhat equivalent to many 4x casters) so I believe there's no argument there about making choices and living with it. I don't have to prove to you a tank with 1k hp and 700 mana is able to solo better than a 1.2k hp 400 mana tank.


However, making the thief for example more valid in tankship is a good idea. Crippling blow is one of those exciting skills and perhaps more could be considered into the issue.



Cheers!
-Hotara

[Weasel]

Well I had to give it a shot. Thanks for responding and clarifying at least Krom, even if I still don't agree with some points.

I have no idea why, as you said, you want to encourage new school tanks so much yet apparently neglect old school tanks, but I guess you have your reasons.

Imho, If tripling stats on the av light from a max of 2 stats to a max of 6 stats is not excessively extending the power of the item, then I don't know what is. Unfortunately I've spent the last year or two working on earning exp to buy those stats. My bad, can't be helped.

And yes, the last week was probably the highest exp I've ever done, both solo and group - I've been home sick with a bad flu for nearly a week, so had the time to do it - and that was in my pre-12ac eq setup too btw.

Thanks Hottie, I think you understand where I'm coming from.

So... anyone got a Thief prime for sale? Preferably one without a bad rep..


...err, btw if the above sounds sarcastic, sorry, it's not supposed to.

[brady]

[quote:dvh5l2h1]="Weasel Sorry for whining, but every time there's been a change I keep hoping someone will finally throw warriors a bone, but this is the last change available and still not a thing. Kinda upset about it.[/quote:dvh5l2h1]

Is that Mosaix in a Weasel suit? Halloween was last month...ya missed it!

[Autolycos]

[quote="Weasel":2u3dj1li]So... anyone got a Thief prime for sale? Preferably one without a bad rep..[/quote:2u3dj1li]


thieves are overrated

you should really try making a warrior

[alias]

First of all sorry for going on a tangent on this thread, but here goes.

You mention the uc cap for Prime necros... I would like to ask if prime necros have some innate uc, because I get the cap message at exactly +20 and not at +24 as stated.

Want to address the cookie cutter tank problem, 1 spell imo would do it, a high level necro spell that is effectively wraithform being able to be cast on another,this would not only help me and make me want to actually play my tank again, but I think it would do wonders for any old school tank as well.

I have a tank and hes semi-new school but I didnt pick necro, So I basically don't have the ability to tank desert efficiently; a 3x40 w/ wraith and -11 is better than myself at -12 there. Damage reduction is not necessary but wraithform is for some mobs. And yes you can make charms but its more than inconvenient to store up 20 wraith charms so I can tank 1 day in desert and then increase my inventories 20 more so I can tank another day.


More AC will come in time and I don't worry too much about that these days, and the new tard lights look nice, thanx for the hard work.

Alias

[blackmore]

[quote="Weasel":14kqx3i0]Imho, If tripling stats on the av light from a max of 2 stats to a max of 6 stats is not excessively extending the power of the item, then I don't know what is. [/quote:14kqx3i0]

Just because something was insanely underpowered before shouldn't mean it needs to always be that underpowered. There is eq valk chars can use that's got 2 +1 stats on them (staff of the glass dragon, for instance). There is no other eq ingame that has any AC on light. It was insane that a quint40 light option could potentially be as weak as eq that loads on valk. It used to be that it was almost embarrassing to pick a stat for your light - now it's actually reasonable.

[Weasel]

how much +3any-stat eq is out there, let alone +6any-stat.. guess it's a matter of perspective..

seems I'm pushing sh*t uphill here.

[blackmore]

[quote="Weasel":13i6is44]how much +3any-stat eq is out there, let alone +6any-stat.. guess it's a matter of perspective..
[/quote:13i6is44]

If there was some, it wouldn't be a quint 40 light. I'm thinking you're confused. If they left the stats at +1,they would be no more powerful than valk eq. If they leave the AC at .2, it's .2 better than anything available ingame. I guess it makes sense to me - the +3 stats are +2 better than anything ingame, and the .2 AC is .2 better than anything ingame. I'm confused why it doesn't make sense to you.

[Roadrunr]

heres the way I'm trying to look at it.

cant buy ac with xp tokens. cant buy straight dam or mr either.

can buy stats, spelldam, mana, etc.

so, if I need 3 stats, thats 15 tokens. can I buy anything better than 3 stats with 15 tokens if I get them on my light or am I better off keeping the mr and mana that I have. the mana would cost 21 tokens, the mr I cant buy.

really, I'm just trying to stay above 500 mana, +19 dam at -10. I've been looking at the trip40 changes and cant figure out what would benefit me more than what I have now. I'm never on long enough to tank so I primarily solo.

I dont think anyone bothers to run the way I do...I know strider used to run massive mana but I think he chagned to more dam...

[Tap]

Blackmore wrote to Furball
[quote:337prm5d]I'm confused why it doesn't make sense to you.[/quote:337prm5d]

giggle*snort*chuckle*snicker*laff*snicker*smirk

[Weasel]

lick my balls.

[Hotara]

Indeed, this discussion has turned into an intellectual one

[Evergreen]

way too much changes nowdays ~ cant figure all the benefits i can have from this, you making my chars too powerful!!!
seriously, very good change and very nice attitude to consider this change when players suggested it.
6 stats? very nice option that temporary helps you sort out good stats with one low stat - for example dex if you have decent stats with nat 14 dex, fills you all sloths with +dex and makes it not comfortable to play. now you can cast quicken and take 3dex +dam or 20spelldam lite and be damn happy.
now where is my avian claw...

[Avatar]

Thanks for the work Krom, I think your approach makes sense.

Most of the people with old 3x40 eq and tard lights picked very similar eq. In the old days, there were a few options that were simply much better than other choices you could make. If you picked strong choices for your character before the recent changes, then you'll likely still be happy with those choices now. The higher mana or higher stats -might- tempt you to make some change, but you may decide that your earlier picks are still better for the way you play. Don't be bitter about this, you still made good picks.

I agree with Weasel and Blackmore both. I agree with Weasel that tanks need more AC. I agree with Blackmore that the AC on the light is already where it needs to be.

I think the AC cap was the best change Sloth has made from a game system standpoint in a long time. Higher AC needs to come from new in-game items, and it should come with some serious drawbacks.

If -13 is possible, it should be something you do for big groups only. -dam, -spelldam, -mana, and big numbers on those -. How about a tower shield that prevents warriors from using their last two attacks each round?