Get ready

[Mosaix]

I agree with Jason sending Bush to an international court would be a healthy start.

[Avatar]

That's an interesting link, thanks for posting Mahkra.

While they start off with a good introduction, I don't think their later points are entirely supported. Into the third episode, they start building on their earlier topics to start making their case. The problem is, they still present the later information as fact when it's not entirely supported.

As an example, they say that because the interest exceeds the principle, more debt must be created to pay the interest. That's only true at one specific point in time. Most loans cover some period of time though. If I get a house loan, I expect to pay the interest over the next 15 years. I'm not getting a second loan to pay the interest. The interest comes from my income over those years.

It's nice and interesting to see people arguing for finance reform, but I'd rather seem them present their stance as a stance. The way they present this as educational material, they're misrepresenting themselves.

These are my opinions, not meant to be educational in any way.

Charles

[Autolycos]

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[color=white:1thezz7e][b:1thezz7e]And for all the "Ginger Nation" out there..

Ron Paul wants you too![/b:1thezz7e][/color:1thezz7e]

[url:1thezz7e]http://www.redheads4ronpaul.net[/url:1thezz7e]

[img:1thezz7e]http://www.xgenco.com/RHFRP/RH4RP.jpg[/img:1thezz7e]

[mahkra]

Actually it's not the interest that excedes the principal. it's the fact that for $1k in real dollars a bank can cut a loan for $10k. The extra $9k didn't exist before the loan. it's mythical dollars, add in interest which is also mythical dollars you can never repay the toaly ammount of debt because the ammount of money available is based on how much debt there is. It could be equal if there was no interest being paid/charged but becasue there the ammount of interest paid to the original depositor is much less than what is charded to the debtor it can never be the same. The Debt will allways be larger than the pool.

The bottom line is that the money you think you have is in reality worth nothing. It's only worth something becasue you think it is.

The banks have a win/win situation becasue they only need to come up with 1/9th of what they can lend for for and those loans are usually placed against something material so that even if a person defaults on a loan the bank gets the item that the loan was used for and they get it for a loss of 1/9th it's value. So the whole arguments about how a bank should be able to charge interest is BS. They are taking very little risk of loss when they make a loan. Hell it's profitable the second you sign on the dotted line.

The only risk is when the original depositors show up and want thier cash. then you get a run and it's a bad deal; so as long as the banks/government can fake you out too keep you from showing up and demanding cash it keeps on working. If you don't want to play in this system simply don't borrow money. Simple.

[tincts]

We should all plan focussed bank runs. Once every six months the whole nation asks for their deposits back from one of the banks. *That'll* show up the weakness in the fractional reserve system

[Tap]

Only one flaw in your theory. I'm no historian but maybe someone else could flesh it out. There was a time in the early 1900's when people were mad rushing to withdraw their funds and only allowed to withdraw a certain percentage of a maximum limit. Don't think this wouldn't happen again and I'm suprised it hasn't already. Myself, i'm gonna sit back and enjoy the ride.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I'm doing fine.

[tincts]

UK had a bank rush only last month. Not sure what the actual issues are, but a bank that started disallowing people from withdrawing would be screwed anyway - no way in hell people will deposit any more.

[Tap]

I'm sure this was around the Great Depression era. People were taking guns to the banks and demanding their money. Problem was/is he who has the money makes the rules. If a bank decides NOT to give you access to your account then you are pretty much screwed. The new constitution that will/would take affect should the President ever declare martial law would automatically freeze bank accounts. You could go and beat your fist all you want. The bank manager haven been given plenty of notice and would be long gone..possible with said funds. It's why some people use home safes etc etc.. which it in itself is kinda dumb... kinda hard to use paper money when it's not worth the ink it's printed with.

[Avatar]

[quote:23xqyy1d]The bottom line is that the money you think you have is in reality worth nothing. It's only worth something becasue you think it is.[/quote:23xqyy1d]

I agree with you there Mahkra. It's a confidence scheme for sure. The only thing I'd disagree with is that my money isn't worth anything based on what I think it's worth. It's worth what OTHER people think it's worth. It's only when you spend the money that it even matters what it's worth.

Regarding the bank runs, that's why banks now say 'member, FDIC'. The FDIC was created in 1933 as a response to the depression. Up to $100k of your bank account is federally insured to 100%. As long as the US government is around, money in low-risk investments is, well, low-risk.

[/quote]

[Tap]

[quote:3poigg8g]As long as the US government is around[/quote:3poigg8g]

Exactly.

[Mosaix]

[url:1zz6k3fx]http://money.cnn.com/2007/11/05/news/international/bc.as.fin.china.petrochina.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007110507[/url:1zz6k3fx]

[Alberich]

[url:6n6uqcgk]http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90881/6296732.html[/url:6n6uqcgk]

[Mosaix]

[url:v49oq62h]http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/19/news/newsmakers/fannie.ap/index.htm?postversion=2007121917[/url:v49oq62h]

[Mosaix]

Not as interesting as the prior post, but good to read this one if you havent read up on the write-downs, and buying of debt by china.

[url:3r69dmko]http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/19/news/companies/morgan_stanley_earnings/index.htm?postversion=2007121915[/url:3r69dmko]

[Tap]

[size=150:lecczsxm] FBI aims for world's largest biometrics database[/size:lecczsxm]

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The FBI is embarking on a $1 billion project to build the world's largest computer database of biometrics to give the government more ways to identify people at home and abroad, the Washington Post reported on Friday.
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The FBI has already started compiling digital images of faces, fingerprints and palm patterns in its systems, the paper said.

In January, the agency -- which focuses on violations of federal law, espionage by foreigners and terrorist activities -- expects to award a 10-year contract to expand the amount and kinds of biometric information it receives, it said.

At an employer's request, the FBI will also retain the fingerprints of employees who have undergone criminal background checks, the paper said.

If successful, the system, called Next Generation Identification, will collect the biometric information in one place for identification and forensic purposes, the Post said.