Who cares?

[Mosaix]

Its funny to me to watch what people care about, and how it effects what they say when they post here.

I suppose its dumb for a bard to roll dex first. Maybe a bard should roll wis first since the char would benefit from the mana regen and the cost to sing songs. Since thats what a Bard actually does...sing songs.

From playing a Cleric Prime, and being told all the time to quit complaining, stuff it, etc. Im going to give you crybabies back the best advice I have gotten for my poor decision to build a Cleric Prime.

"Build another Character, and start over", "Wont take long to level up a new char.", "its easy to get exp and make a new char"

So go forth and follow your own advice if you dont like how a Bard, Thief or whatever plays or has been nerfed.

Broc

[Avatar]

I guess I like the change, even if I don't like the way it was implemented.

[quote:2tsgr8g3]Blackula is the first of his kind, the all new_class tank. Bard Monk Druid Necro. I have hps, some dmg reduction, fluidity, counter, ogham's and used to be ac.[/quote:2tsgr8g3]

I wonder though that Blackula might still make a nice tank character. Each of those attributes you list will help. You could also add wraithform to the list. There's no other tank character that has each of those. We know most tanks skip Druid, maybe the fluidity (and greater fluidity) will make up for losing heavy armor? I'd bet he still will be an effective tank, and will surprise most of the players here.

I guess this is the roughest part of the change, that people who lose -11 will certainly get hit more often and take more damage. I hope this nerf can be at least partially reduced by swapping out that AC gear for something with other mods. Maybe +HPs? I bet we could find 200 - 300 hps for 1.0 AC.

Charles

[edit: typo]

[Leaf]

-1.0 ac = 200-300hp???

Chucky the most hp i believe on eq is 30?

Tiny Jade Rings = -0.0 -int +30hp x2 = +60 taking away -.8 from fingers.
That gives another slot for -.2 for +40hp.

[strider]

Actually it does affect one of my chars quite a lot. mandos whole purpose is to stand around long enough to let his pets kill the mob. now that he dropped back down to -10 it's quite a bit more difficult. so this is a fairly personal change. i've invested a bit more time into mandos than blackula so don't try to pull that card please. as far as prime eq most all of it is quite outdated and i can pick a few items that make no sense for their class. bards are not armored fighters, plain and simple. as for what stat they roll first, pretty weak argument. you say monks are all about dmg, yet they roll con? if warriors are sposed to get beat up why str? and thieves have dex first for themselves too, they must be all about ac!

i still say that a bard with their 61 spells and songs, before avatar more closely resemble a caster, but i spose that's just me. yes they get nice hps and ac gear, but i suggest we quit mentioning this b4 they are adjusted by the higher ups. bards are a great support class, the best in most cases.

i'm sorry that blackula will never be your ultimate tank. but i guess it just wasn't meant to be. roll with the punches, it's what we do. peace out.

[Avatar]

Well, I was talking fast Leaf and I hope there have been additions to the eq that I haven't seen in the last couple months. Even so, with eq like obsidian bracers, sapphire bands of defense, and a helm of radiance that's already 84 hps for +.5 AC. Double that for 168 hps for +1.0 AC.

I was hoping that someone more familiar with tank eq would be able to generate better ideas, but maybe those items are better than other AC / HP gear.

[Akasha]

I'm not justifying any of your arguements or trying to justify the admin's actions in deciding the AC caps, this is just a brief history of Bard (from my POV and does not express any opinions from the other admins).

When Tower made the new classes it was unsure what role Bard would play, necro, monk, and druid were pretty simple, but Bard was a hybrid class and anyone who play tested the new classes is prolly quite aware that many changes were made to bard before it ever went live as ppl tried to figure out its role. A lot of high AC eq was intiially put into the game for Bard because of that hybrid-class mind-set.

Since then many changes have taken place with warrior that has made warrior a more destinct class into itself with a few more skills that set it apart from the other classes as a 1-1 fighter. Thus warrior has seperateed itself from Bard quite substantionally from the time bard was added.

I perfer not to have stats on eq removed or changed after it is put ingame as that causes much more hassle than its worth (except in extreme cases). Bard finally settled into a role as a group-oriented class and the spells and songs in the class's abilities is aimed at this orientation.

As far as all the arguements go for how tough a bard is, MY personal vision of a bard is Geoffery Chauser, one of the most prolific 'bards' of all time. I just cant imagine him running around in heavy plate mail carrying spiked shields and bloody boots and telling stories and inspiring morale.
Yes there are some 'bards' who are tough and could kick ass, but many arguements could be made that a thief should be strong to be able to steal bags full of loot, while we're at it, mages ad necromancers should all have con as their last stat because how hard would you have to punch David Copperfield or Harry Hudini or Merlin before they crumbled to the ground? Or let's say a necro/bard.. logically would you be inspired by a person followed around by an army of rotting corpses and screaming phantoms?

All arguements make sense from any 1 single POV, but RL isnt a single POV and neither is this mud.

This is my 2 cents... carry on

Aka

[Medios]

Does this mean you scrubs will stop making Minstrel clones. You have already determined that bards suck. The funniest thing about the new ac change is that Minstrel ran with -10 and shofar up until the recent ac changes. I then tried out -11 gear and really didn't care for it much compared to holding my instrument. Anyways now that bards are nerfed maybe you guys can come up with a unique class to play instead of trying to emulate everyone else.

[Autolycos]

[quote="*Akasha*":2k2gf6an] [color=white:2k2gf6an][b:2k2gf6an]Or let's say a necro/bard.. logically would you be inspired by a person followed around by an army of rotting corpses and screaming phantoms? [/b:2k2gf6an][/color:2k2gf6an] Aka[/quote:2k2gf6an]

LMFAO! depends if she is single & asian..

the mental image alone is fantastic... for some reason I think of Shirley Manson from Garbage tho....

[Alberich]

[quote="Autolycos":1xns8cfu][quote="*Akasha*":1xns8cfu] [color=white:1xns8cfu][b:1xns8cfu]Or let's say a necro/bard.. logically would you be inspired by a person followed around by an army of rotting corpses and screaming phantoms? [/b:1xns8cfu][/color:1xns8cfu] Aka[/quote:1xns8cfu]

LMFAO! depends if she is single & asian..

the mental image alone is fantastic... for some reason I think of Shirley Manson from Garbage tho....[/quote:1xns8cfu]

that's odd, my mental image was of hillary clinton

[12345]

[quote="Medios":1u8qhb2w]Does this mean you scrubs will stop making Minstrel clones.[/quote:1u8qhb2w]
I built a Minstrel clone for a very basic reason. Its the best combo I can think of for leading and its a hell of a lot of fun to lead with. I probably have more fun with that character than any other one I've ever played and I've never come close to standing in front.

As far as Blackula, my tank ran -10 until about 10 Avatar. 40 Avatar if you consider that -11 was broken, and even then I frequently ran -10 for additional damage and just didn't tell anyone.

My classo was built to take damage and not care. You have the additional benefit of wraithform, so I wouldn't sound the death bell just yet.

[Vixn]

[quote="Medios":1jjrtuv7]Does this mean you scrubs will stop making Minstrel clones. You have already determined that bards suck. The funniest thing about the new ac change is that Minstrel ran with -10 and shofar up until the recent ac changes. I then tried out -11 gear and really didn't care for it much compared to holding my instrument. Anyways now that bards are nerfed maybe you guys can come up with a unique class to play instead of trying to emulate everyone else.[/quote:1jjrtuv7]

BTW, Medios was 7th Th/Ma (only according to Hall of Lame)
Now let me please emulate you, Mister 'with instrument'

Kida/Edd

[13]

I didn't realize Mandos was running -11. What I really meant was from a tanking perspective. For thieves dex is backstab/steal, their main shit, so they roll it first. I agree warriors should roll con and monks should roll str. In fact a lot of the classo stat-order combinations are a little silly, but like you said, roll with the punches. Like Mike said, it does pretty well guarantee that you're gonna use you're instrument. As far as Bit goes, anyone who can look at eq can realize this is a -10 dmg setup (or hprgn or whatever you liked) and not be fooled. I was a girdle away from -11 before avatar and had planned on doing my solo damage with followers and gods. C'est le vie I guess.

[Tap]

Now that the dust seems to be settling, perhaps we could have some influx of some new spells/skills/songs to add ingame. Not to beef up the loss/difference but hopefully give a new avenue of exploring/use of classo's.

[12345]

Heh, no one said I was trying to fool anyone. But I wouldn't underestimate fluidity and wraithform. Espeically when you can create your own charms. Normally I'd tell you that counter isn't as reliable as parry.. but with ograms, that's a tough call.

[13]

I dont feel as bad I guess.