Who cares?

[Sheng]

Kjartan gossips-- 'druid forms can still go to whatever they went to before'

[Autolycos]

Although I only run -10ac solo respectively, i'm a much better tank then some others out there. I do agree that War primes should get a heavy armor style benefit, but capping the rest of us from reaching and/or knocking down those whom have achieved is pretty rediculous.

I understand that some of the admins never expected ca/ca or quad casters to get -11 etc. But jesus, you should revel in the creativity that some of these players have achieved. Can you imagine the work required to sift through the eq lists, run drach quests and forge specific items that you CAN use to maximize your char, only to have it busted down for no reason?

When the AC bug was fixed by KJ, the statement was made that not only PC's but NPC's now could achieve even greater ac variables including -13 and beyond. This was great news and widely accepted by the entire player base that hard work and effort will endure you special benefits. Now after all that, we're gonna knock you back down. Logically to a veteran of SlothMUD, this would be the same as demoting an IMM 2 levels just because you found out they could echo in blue instead of white.

Even though this does not effect me in currently in any way, it removes the choice that I would have been able to make on my own. Fixing the ac cap bug and then creating a new one only single out people is disheartening at the least. Creating class specific Elite eq is much more humane then nullifying the already achieved struggles that ca/ca's and non-war's have worked so hard to do.

Agreeing with KJ's original statement that ac should not be capped for those working to attain it. Even though 99.9% of us might never see -11 or higher, it is something to admire. When Brady and Yinao hit -11ac and Yinao nearing -12 to me is amazing and i commend them rather then downgrade them.

*ponder, rethink, repair*

[brady]

One more brief gripe and I'll shaddup. I can imagine the amount of work involved in revamping the eq restricts but this just seems like a lazy way of doing just that. It's hard to wrap my head around the fact that I can read a book and the eq I am already wearing magically becomes -1.0 thicker. Curious to see what happens at 50%. Will I be -10.5 or do i just need to rent a bunch of times until I get the ac i want?

[Leaf]

Because of the change, will Non-Warrior NPC also be limited to -10?

[Messiaen]

I think that the way all the changes are done on sloth is bitchy and I don't feel like thinking about the changes itself, think I can spent my time in a much better way.

[Messiaen]

[quote="Medios":2y2wmp65][quote="brady":2y2wmp65]I think--I hope--I jumped the gun. Is heavy armor proficiency prime only? Please clarify...

Either way, I think it's dumb to have to include warrior in your classo to achieve -11 but I could live with that a little more.[/quote:2y2wmp65]


heavy armor proficiency - Lvl: 38, Unlearned


Medios has it. I am still going to run -8.

I go by this principle. If you have a thief play a thief. If you have a mage play a mage. Etc, etc, etc..... I never was one to have a cleric warrior and run around in -10 with no regen gear. See in the groups I like to run everyone has a job determined by their prime and secondary abilities. Sure in small groups sometimes mages heal, but the overall point I am trying to make is that if you want to play a warrior just make one. If you want to bitch about new class orders then make one. Just please everyone, shhh.

Mike

PS Especially Guinex, *smoke*[/quote:2y2wmp65]

Okay, do something so I can improve my blasting power and regen and I sure will. What should I do if I'm already capped at everything?

[Lis]

[quote="Medios":30hh431l]
I go by this principle. If you have a thief play a thief. If you have a mage play a mage. Etc, etc, etc..... I never was one to have a cleric warrior and run around in -10 with no regen gear. See in the groups I like to run everyone has a job determined by their prime and secondary abilities. Sure in small groups sometimes mages heal, but the overall point I am trying to make is that if you want to play a warrior just make one. If you want to bitch about new class orders then make one. Just please everyone, shhh.

Mike

PS Especially Guinex, *smoke*[/quote:30hh431l]

And sometimes you make Lis mage-tanking with -11.
Guess you just want to see how long mage-tank will last. *sniff*

[13]

Blackula was made to be an all new-class tank..where is the love for Bards? I think they should be able to get -11 at least.

[brady]

[quote="13":1q57ypu4]Blackula was made to be an all new-class tank..where is the love for Bards? I think they should be able to get -11 at least.[/quote:1q57ypu4]

agreed

[Rynquald]

I've always been for casters being casters, but not like this.

How about nc/nc chars being capped at 300 mana?

[Mace]

Having an AC restriction is so brain-damaged I see no point in talking about this one.
Idiotic.

[*Krom*]

Some general comments on the change:
anyone with warrior in the class order can get -11
primes warriors can go lower

Until a few months ago, -11 and lower did not even work correctly, so people were living without its benefits for a long time.

We consider the mud to be fairly dynmaic, and are always working on changes and improvements. Not all will be super popular, but considering what I said above, I dont think this one will have a huge impact other than a few rare characters. Why was this particular change made?

As someone pointed out, much of the game follows principles established in a certain roll playing game. In that game, there are penalties for heavy armor, like dex bonus loss, arcane spell failure, etc...As a general whole we wanted to preserve what each class represented but felt this was type of solution was not the way. Warrior in general should have some advantages that makes it, well a warrior. The big guy/gal at the front of the line, with the heaviest armor and the greatest stand-in power. As a supporting class, warrior gains something, as a prime, there is less talk about a class without even warrior in it being superior to a warrior as a tank.

On a side note, we also made some changes to backstab which allows a + to hit bonuses, regardless of source, to properly affect stab, previously this was also not working. The benefits of singing were brought more in line with other hitting bonuses as well.

We definately do listen to all comments and constructive criticism, much of these ideas actually came from player base and some issues that were brought up. If you put together a good discussion/argument, rather than just bash something, we are always open to those ideas.

Thanks,
Krom

[13]

Thanks Balrog. Anything on Bard primes getting the non-prime warrior affect maybe or just for sure not gonna happen? Bards actually get the best real "tank item" for their personal autoquest (.8 15hp shoulders with charisma), so I'm guessing that the grand plan was to go ahead and let them be somewhere in between monks and warriors for AC.

[Leaf]

I always took it like Wa=Ba, Th=Mo, Cl=Dr, n Ma=Ne.

[Sheng]

[quote:1ilzpfo2]Krom -- As a supporting class, warrior gains something, as a prime, there is less talk about a class without even warrior in it being superior to a warrior as a tank.

We definately do listen to all comments and constructive criticism, much of these ideas actually came from player base and some issues that were brought up. If you put together a good discussion/argument, rather than just bash something, we are always open to those ideas.
[/quote:1ilzpfo2]

So let me get this straight, you made this change because some [i:1ilzpfo2]player[/i:1ilzpfo2] made a good argument as to nonwarriors being superior to warrior prime tanks? I would have thought it was fairly obvious that with:

1. Far superior hp, both naturally and with better eq selection
2. Oath of Victory (150 free hp vs. any mob)
3. Warcry (30-100 MORE free hps vs. any mob in groups)
4. Parry

It was quite clear that warriors were already far superior as tanks. I would like to hear the well reasoned argument from the playerbase that said non warriors were better tanks... I've also never seen a (non_chat) group larger than 5 that didn't have a 'real tank' -- a warrior.

So having established that warriors with their better eq selection, hps, and abilities make for the best tanks by far, your explanation I'll afraid falls short.

Feel free to take another stab at explaining your need to nerf all the MANY (yes, many) nonwarrior avatars who had a -11 gear, painfully assembled through quests and endless cycling, and were still questing for -12.