A point I have long tried to explain.

[13]

these conversations should be had in person


that's what I think

[Hades]

Piss off wanker, your'e one of the worst offenders here

[Medios]

I do not agree with Limbaugh 100% but I need to ask why your liberal and why not have faith in mankind? Freedom has a cost.

Dad always said 'You can't just throw money at a problem." How true it is. I doubt any can disagree that our governments "waste" more money than we need to run a good system. I pay county property taxes so that the school system can run, and they still send home solicitations with the child to get us to buy something. If we do not buy then the child feels left out because she does not get the prize. I classify this as psychological warfare against me and my child. The child feels "bad" if we do not spend more money, its ridiculous. Now kids have computers and all types of stuff that we pay for, but yet the test scores are going down and our nation against other nations is falling.

For some reason I dont herd well. I appreciate public schools and social security but lets be honest they are both failed systems. Public schools are teaching children to be robots. There are not enough parents that care enough to help the children at home. Critical thinking is out. Abstract thinking has been replaced by a political correctness mindset. Social Security will be broke by the time I am old enough to draw. All my money has already been spent. Lets send more money to Uncle Sam so he can spend it on pork barrel projects or art displays with crosses covered in urine and feces. I do not mind paying my fair share of taxes, but when healthy individuals are allowed to be on section 8, food stamps, wic, living allowance, etc It upsets me. I pay a portion of my money so someone can be lazy and nonproductive, and their offspring can learn from them. Its turning into a welfare militia state. Don't get me wrong some people deserve help but our current system is doing the opposite, it creates this mentality.

Its apparent to me theres a class war going on here. Its not republicans vs democrats, or even conservatives vs liberals. Its big money vs the rest of us. Theres a few people in power and they plan to keep it that way. If you havent noticed theres a one world govt forming, a militia state that will force its will upon the helpless millions. Here is what I see.

Fear - The media (which is controlled) constantly uses fear to "herd" the masses. Oh no whats the big problem now, that doesnt affect 99% of us. Out of all the so-called catastrophic armageddon type events in my life, only the recent rising gas prices has really affected me and not enough to worry about dying. I can name hundreds of ways they try to scare us into submission but I am sure you already know most of them.

Materialism - Capitalism has this nice side effect of coveting. George Carlin once said thats what keeps our economy running. Without the jealousy and contempt for your neighbors SUV you wouldnt run out to buy the Toyota Prius (which is more environmentally damaging than a Humvee, if you doubt me research how the batteries are made and the cost per mile to operate). Materialism causes division, and hence contempt.

Racial Tension - I have recently read about how the CIA helped form a violent adversary to the Black Panthers. This group was used to damage the Panthers and try to destroy them from bad publicity. People like Farrakhan and Jesse Jackson get paid to cause problems. Think of it this way, if everyone got along they wouldn't have a job. The KKK and arian brotherhood and other groups do the same thing. They promote ignorance and hatred. From what I understand about history usually men that try to help are assassinated or mysteriously die. We could go into conspiracy theories, but I know that MLK Jr, Bruce Lee, JFK, were all killed for trying to bring people together. Hell there was even a sloppy attempt on Reagan, cuz at first he wasn't controlled.

Enough rambling, I try to do what my signature says.

Mike

PS Wanker lol

[13]

nice, keep talking newb

[Vixn]

Completely agree with Mike, respect.
And all this words refer to whole western civilization (and some others nations, and russians for sure), not just USA.

[12345]

I'll put an easier spin on it.

People grow up hating their parents and living under their rule. Once they get out of high school, most of them want to get out on their own and do their own thing... but aren't really sure how. So they go to places like college and join the military where they're techincally on their own, but people are still living their lives for them. It's kinda like training wheels for life.

By the time they become adults, there's still quite a few people that don't really know how to live their own lives, so there is a constant feeling that someone else should do something about the things they don't like about their life. In many ways, that's where the class divide occurs. The more sucessful people have figured out how to live their life and are doing so, while the others are waiting for someone to make their life better.

So, you end up with the sucessful people changing things so they can be more sucessful, and the unsucessful people changing things so that they can stay unsucessful.

And that probably didn't make any sense at all, but I like it anyway

[Weasel]

I has a corm.

[13]

that was aimed at hades not mike obviously

[Medios]

Parents use the same tactics as govts in controlling children. Therein lies the problem. I try my best to educate Kaitlin to make the right choices. I have never used fear to try and direct her. I use examples and real life situations to give solid evidence for what I tell her. I encourage her to try new things. This includes things that I personally do not like. When most people raise kids they propagate fear into the child as a form of control. Thats one reason the children want to move out and "get away". You can never control people, we were born free and at some point the machine will collapse. I personally do not want to be 20 years down the road and my child moved out because we do not get along. I get great satisfaction in her coming to me with knowledge and educating me. I realize I am not the smartest or even close. She brought home some apples one day and identified them for me. This is a red delicious because it has horns on the bottom, and this is a johnathan something because its round. That makes me happy.

Kaitlin is not even my child. Her dad is a pos and that is fine by me. He doesn't have time for her and its a shame. I grew up in a broken home and my parents were too busy with their own lives to help direct or teach me about anything other than chores. I will not allow her to live like I did and end up a seriously educated adult with much potential and no direction. I jacked most of my life away and I guarantee I won't allow it to happen to her. It's a responsibility that I took upon myself. I learned a tremendous amount about people through shouldering this burden. I love Kaitlin and she makes me want to have a better world.

Mike

[Avatar]

Whoa, so are we talking about psych or religion or economics? Yay!! That's the fun! With politics you get all three and so much more.

My advice is to read more history and sociology. People have been struggling with these issues since the time of the hunter-gatherers, before agriculture. Rome had the same issues, rich people owned the resources and poor people got free food. Even then, conservatives complained about paying taxes and giving food to the people who didn't work.

What it comes down to is that in most cases, the citizens make the rules. You have your vote, your voice, and the opportunity to run for public office. If you don't like the way things are, you have those three weapons to fight for change.

So specifically:

"It is the responsibility of the community not the govt to educate. I endorse government staying the hell out of my life. I endorse people teaching kids to take responsibility for actions. I endorse teaching people to overcome fear and live life to the fullest."

I agree with you on some points, and of course disagree on others. The disagreement for me starts with education. You say that the community should be responsible for education, not the government - I say it's the same thing. Everyone in the community has a strong interest in the subjects taught and the methods used to teach their children. The people in that community express their will through votes and electing public officers. You have a distinct interest in how your child is educated, and you make the decisions about how she is treated. The people working on your school board are appointed or hired to enforce your decisions and your beliefs.

[Hades]

that was aimed at hades not mike obviously

Indeed, why would you say that to yourself? We are onto your little trick. Stick to one author and stop hiding behind several characters.

[Weasel]

The government is supposed to be a representation of the people, and that is where things fall apart. Politicians, for the most part, are a representation of themselves, for themselves, although they would never admit it as it would cost them their position. IF governments worked the way they were idealized then things might be different, but it is inherently impossible.

The major problem - one of the major problems, for there are several - ONE of the many major problems with governing people is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of whom manages to get people to let them do it to them.

It is fact that those people who WANT to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it. So who can possibly rule if no one who wants to do it can be allowed to?

To summarize: people are a problem.

Thanks for the enlightenment, Douglas Adams.

[Marchessa_red_witch]

we would have no need of money, government or mudding.

[Autolycos]

[size=150:3mhpjr5y][b:3mhpjr5y][color=green:3mhpjr5y]Soylent Green is made out of people!!!

PEOPLE!!!![/color:3mhpjr5y][/b:3mhpjr5y][/size:3mhpjr5y]

[Medios]

[quote="Avatar":2zwmrir1]
I agree with you on some points, and of course disagree on others. The disagreement for me starts with education. You say that the community should be responsible for education, not the government - I say it's the same thing. Everyone in the community has a strong interest in the subjects taught and the methods used to teach their children. The people in that community express their will through votes and electing public officers. You have a distinct interest in how your child is educated, and you make the decisions about how she is treated. The people working on your school board are appointed or hired to enforce your decisions and your beliefs.[/quote:2zwmrir1]


First I never complained about paying taxes. It is when I see people living on welfare better than I live on my 40k a year that I get upset about my tax money supporting their lifestyle.

Its been proven time and again that the government fails when it tries to use money to solve social issues. I don't know what community you live in but most places I know the parents don't give a shit. They might be involved in taking the kid to some sport, but theres no time for academics. Smart kids are ridiculed and picked on for their natural thirst for knowledge. People today are a lot more worried about Anna Nicole Smith than they are about real issues. We idolize models, sports figures, singers, actors, most of which cant change a light bulb. Then whenever Barbara Streisand wants to stand up and bash America everyone listens. How about listening to a history or chemistry teacher or a soldier of a real war.

I totally understand why most people don't run for public office. The media is so biased where I am that even if you get solid evidence about corruption they won't print it. If you try to bring it up then you got people following you, damaging your property, harassing you etc. I will not put myself into this position, someone will get hurt and I will be in jail for a long time. I dare not take the money from the hands of the crooks. I know about a few things happening in my county right now that has me furious. The newspaper, States Attorney, and several other politicians have done their best to perpetrate a lie in the media to distract from the real issue. The effect was so widespread that a man who has done more for our county than anyone in the last 30 years was voted out of office. It had nothing to do with our economy or what this guy done. It was all based on untrue accusations spread in the media daily. Politics has become all about money. Half of the voters are not smart enough to even know the positions.

American Heritage has this to say about govt.

Community - A group of people living in the same locality and under the same government. The locality in which such a group lives. A group of people having common interests.

Government - The act or process of governing, esp the the administration of public policy. The means a governing agent or agency uses authority. A governing body or organization. Political science.

I put emphasis on the words group of people, act or process, and authority. Community wants to work together for a common benefit while government wants to use authority to control the people. I totally agree about voting, speaking out and running for office. The problem is that most people think that Condolezza Rice is a Mexican side dish. I am looked down upon because I try to stay informed about politics. Theres a division created upon the people by political parties, race issues, sex issues, and on and on. My main point is that there is a machine that keeps us divided. It uses many tools to accomplish this. I have read more history in the last month than I did in the previous 5 years. My mission is bridge the division, I am educating myself and starting close to me. I mainly think that people need to escape fear and stop believing that they "need" govt to wipe their asses. Technology has made it way to easy to stagnate.

Mike

PS Read about Circadian Rhythm and then ask yourself why it makes sense to change the time 1 hour every 6 months. Its proven to keep you off track. I originally heard it was for farmers, that cracked me up since they work the hours they want.