Totally confuzled

[Weasel]

one word: clasps. lots of lovely +hit clasps.

[Zukt]

Dtouch should be 85-86 before brothers. At 81% it doesnt make much sense to use except for mobs that cant hurt you if you miss... If its the most used avatar skill right now, its probably because most avatars dont understand it and the stats...

When dtouch is at 80% average and dgrip is at 90% average that means you miss dtouch twice as often, one out of five mobs. If those mobs hit hard at all, that means you'll have to recover and regen twice as often. Now if dtouch is at 85% ave, then miss rate is about 1/7th... you miss about 50% more than a grip and then the skills really are balanced in desirability. After all, dgrip inflicts 2 hitroll while gripped, hits 50% more often... very desirable on mobs that are going to take more than 1 round to die or in groups. Dtouch has slightly more splorking potential. Given a 1/5th miss rate, I might as well just grip and strike/wind/order.

I use it on some corpse runs, but those mobs cant hit me anyways.

[quote:3pmadmu4]I sincerely hope that I don't have to start supping a peri instead of a eudaemon or changing out cool hand gear for silver guantlets just to make it through the day here on sloth. To hit eq usually equals lame eq, just my two cents worth.[/quote:3pmadmu4]

That should largely be up to the area owner. The change was largely to provide flexibility to area owners. Its not terribly compatible with general stab mobs, but an area owner could have a number of mobs that have AC's just barely low enough so you have to use an extra hitroll eq, faerie fire them, or whatever, and they're worth a little more xp or dont hit as hard or something along those lines.

But really what its useful for is more choppy mobs... use a corrosive surge and a flames at midnight to keep everyone hitting it. Keep grace up. Set up autofaeriefire scripts... Not all areas will be affected by this, but it provides flexibility for builders to tweak mobs to require certain spells and lifts the effective cap on hitroll. Otherwise why have hitroll at all, and just have chars allways hit 95% of the time.

This makes the mud richer in flavor. It was sort of neat to come up on a mob that my pets were missing, and it was a significantly harder challenge even though Zukt was hitting it fine.

[12345]

Actually, on that note Zukt, a couple of druid forms, necro summons or supplicants that have high +hit with lower average damage would be kinda cool.

[osric]

Again on that note, Osric isn't the type of character to have a ton of summoned mobs helping out, it was me that wasn't hitting not some group of animated kobolds running around with me, the part that I didn't like was that with all the time I have invested in this game now there will be more mobs that I can't tangle with cuz not only can I not hit it, but they can easily hit me. You see gang, as a thief I have about the shittiest AC in the game, most casters have better ACs than I do, I can live with that, especially if I can still actually go out there and splork a mob here or there, but every now and again it hurts gang it really hurts.

[Zukt]

I doubt you solo choppy mobs for fun. Or nostab mobs, or try the really huge ones for nocap... If the area writer wants to he can make the area suck for you; Then you wont visit the area and hes wasted his time. Stab mobs with ac that makes you double wiff 30% of the time is going to be just bad area design.

Again, this is supposed to be able to provide flexibility for builders. If a builder really screws up then it will show with no one visiting the area.

Now a builder might make a concept area still with stab mobs with high ac but lower hp or lower damroll or higher xp, and you can adjust for that with a peri, hitroll eq, or faerie fire and be at 95% hitrate again. If the mobs ac is so low that getting there isn't worth it, then you wont run the area and the builder screwed up... or specifically intended it for a different classo.

[13]

faerie fire on stab mobs...right

[*juggleblood*]

This is at +15 to hit:

A hate-filled undead soldier hates your guts!
You can taste the impending victory!
A hate-filled undead soldier quickly avoids your backstab, and you nearly cut your finger!
A hate-filled undead soldier quickly avoids your backstab, and you nearly cut your finger!
A hate-filled undead soldier quickly avoids your backstab, and you nearly cut your finger!

<1075hp 68ma 171mv>

Caldrick -- 'nope'

<1075hp 68ma 171mv>

You are rescued by Caldrick, you are confused!


Griffin utters the words, 'blindness'
A hate-filled undead soldier seems to be blinded!

Caldrick skillfully parries the attack of a hate-filled undead soldier.
Caldrick's riposte viciously massacres a hate-filled undead soldier.
A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his slash.
A hate-filled undead soldier misses you with his slash.
A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his hit.
A hate-filled undead soldier massacres Caldrick to small fragments with his slash.
Caldrick misses a hate-filled undead soldier with his slash.
Caldrick misses a hate-filled undead soldier with his slash.
You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.
You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.

<1015hp 70ma 173mv>

You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.
A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his slash.
A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his slash.
A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his slash.
A hate-filled undead soldier misses Caldrick with his slash.
You are viciously massacred by a hate-filled undead soldier's hit.
Caldrick skillfully parries the attack of a hate-filled undead soldier.
Caldrick misses a hate-filled undead soldier with his slash.
Caldrick misses a hate-filled undead soldier with his slash.
You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.
You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.
You miss a hate-filled undead soldier with your pierce.
Heavell looks at a hate-filled undead soldier.

[kjartan]

Turns out that guy had an ac of -80! I am assuming someone goofed and he was supposed to be -8, so I put it to that.

[12345]

Osric, I wasn't implying that you ran with undeads. However, prime warriors and monks have a significant THAC0 advantage over every other class in the game at sub-40 levels. At 1x40, thieves aren't too far off the mark of where warriors are, though skills like swordsmanship give a substantial boost to a class that already has a +hit advantage.

I was referring to other classes, like Mage and Necro that will effectively have no chance to hit a high (low) AC mob. Mages can basically compensate by doing the blasting thing but necros, clerics and druids aren't as effective at blasting and will basically be shut out without some kind of modification.

[Avatar]

Regarding the hate-filled soldier with -80 AC, I guess it's possible that the mob always had a -80 AC but we never noticed because of the AC cap?

Clerics and Druids are the same place as ever, hopefully they have some other class that can blast, has a decent +hit rate, or some other method to do damage.

Charles

[12345]

I'm pretty sure only your primary classo contributes to your THAC0... I could easily be wrong though.

[Avatar]

That'd be interesting to see. It sounds odd to have a multiclass mud like this and only have the prime class affect the hit rates.

I guess it'd be easy enough to test. I have Cl and Wa prime old class tards. With a stab weapon (ignore swordsmanship) and some hack mobs, I should be able to see if there's a significant difference.

If I get time this weekend I'll give it a try.

[12345]

I'm wrong.

[*juggleblood*]

Heh I'm glad you're wrong on that one Bit.

It makes sense that putting warrior or monk in your classo should improve your melee skills.

Does anyone know if warrior and monk are essentially equal in melee skill? or does swordmanship put warrior on top?

I was looking at 2 classos I might play: cl/ne/wa/ba vs. cl/ne/mo/ba
Which do you think gives a better advantage to melee combat?

[12345]

Swordsmanship is a +3 hit if you have a sword-ish type weapon, so for a warrior prime with a valor sword, you're basically going to hit what you're aiming for. If you don't plan on using a sword, or if you plan on going barehands, I can't think of anything that would provide a clear advantage.