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Postby Driven » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:00 pm

So I'm seeing a couple necros returning to the game and this is wonderful--welcome back Beatrix, and good to see you Guinex. I'm seeing in titles that necros need some attention and wanted to get the conversation started. I played a necro to 3x40 but found that the playstyle was not for me, so I don't think that I qualify as a reliable source for ways in which necros need improvement.

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Re: Necros

Postby Gorka » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:53 pm

Disclaimer: Never played a necro.

Beatrix made a very insightful comment the other night when we were comparing the "current" game to the "old" game. She said there was "no art" in killing mobs anymore. I think most older players will understand and agree with that comment.

It used to be that Necro's had powerful mob debuff's which used to form part of the base of the necro class, but they got heavily nerfed, and now days even roedrig is a 4 round mob in the right group. I kid you not when I say most epics are dead these days before the debuffs can even be landed. Now days "art" is standing in a group with a sphairai and death proc gauntlets and watching the mob die with pretty colours... or in most cases not even watching at all. It used to be mobs were difficult, and without a necro doing the debuffs things were hard.

Epics are no longer hard, they are a complete joke, the worst reward system in the game, combined with half xp of whats on offer elsewhere... we kill them like an MH run. Lucifer used to be 3-4 regens. It's out of control. You don't make a game better by just putting numbers on equipment, there is more to it than that, mobs need to be smarter, bigger, more rewarding, they need to require players to pay attention to strategize to use their intellectual nouse... there is no art anymore. Necro used to be an art form, now they may as well be afk healers in an OP sphairai and gauntlet group. This is only one issue of many, but it can't be fixed with equipment which seems to be the solution to most things these days.

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Re: Necros

Postby Bandit » Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:50 pm

I don't play a necro either, and that's probably because it seems like a class that needs a lot of player attention as well.

A few things I disliked when I was playing a Wa/Ne was needing to order my pets to attack, would be a quality of life improvement if they'd just auto assist.

Also hated it that a pet would hit a mob to -1 hps and then it would stop combat completely. Seemed really stupid that we'd all just stop fighting and watch the enemy bleed. Or maybe it was that the pet would get the kill and I wouldn't loot? Either way, there's certainly some issues with pets and combat that seem to be less than ideal.

And to the point about making things stronger and combat more dangerous, we'll always be limited by the 10M exp cap, so what's the point of killing harder things if we'll just cap on exp? Same with groups, if we just cap why do a harder area that gives more exp when an easier area with things below the cap will be better.
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Re: Necros

Postby Guinex. » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:10 pm

Lets not derail this topic into how epics and areas are run in general. As far as debuffs on mobs, everyone in the entire group had a role in doing that. And necros never did it better then anyone, they were just as good as a warrior debuffing.

Necros got took a hard hit with the nerfhammer somewhere back at the end of Sloth 3.
- Wraithform is almost useless unless you are fighting mobs that are soloable by a level 2x40. This spell costs 80 mana and lasts 1 minute
- Prepping for undeads is going to cost you around 500-600 mana, and that is not counting time to collect corpses.
- UC gear is almost completely useless, offering very little hp bonuses and unnoticeable armor/damage reduction/damage/hit output changes.
- Swordwraiths (i feel like that had wraithform in s3?), lost a damage proc, and miss most of the time. On top of this phantoms a 6x40 summon are better in most cases.
- The ammount of undeads that can be controlled really don't change at all from control horde to 9x40.
- Spells like weaken/crimson are still almost impossible to land even with saves capped.
- Pet summon/animate time duration are not conducive to the current meta what so ever any more either.
- Charm undead generates followers that are at least 20x more powerful then a necro with max UC.
- While i appreciate the thought of prime order lag reduction (i tried a -2 clasp 1/10 rounds i could notice a slight reduction in lag) and warriors have less order lag then a necro does with second wind.

These are just a few things off the top of my head that i can think of. There are more issues then this but these are just a few of the major issues that i see. Necro has always taken more time then any other class by far in the game to prep and get anything done due to mana costs/prepping/collecting. And now i am a fairly geared character that can go after a 20mil mob.. lose my juju which takes more time to make.. half my pets die in the fight, and i may have to leave or be tapped to finish.

I am sure there are some more things that i will add to this post.

ps.. Wtb a pair of leather gloves.
pps. Can someone unlock my old forum account.
Last edited by Guinex. on Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Necros

Postby Ker » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:19 pm

Dear Gorka,

Cmon good man. We need your help.

We would like to see some light and development into the necromancer class.

End of story.

Kind regards,
Last edited by Ker on Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Necros

Postby Ker » Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:39 am

Moving on,

I hope you folks are holding up well during this lock-down phase wherever you are. As much as I stay away from the crier for reasons known, my intention is to keep my dear necromancer friends playing. Getting our Necros back online is a collective moral imperative!

Necromancers peaked hardcore in S3. They ran amok to a point even Innkeepers were not spared. Move along to this Sloth version, it is no wonder they got nerfed to the ground. Can't blame the nature of how things unfolded here yes? The same can be said for the Mage class. However in recent times, changes made the class very much enjoyable. So enjoyable that I remort a mage and even reborn after a 2 year break. This is exactly how I want our returning or new *cough* necromancers to experience the current phase of Sloth.

So let's cut to the chase.


1) Undead Control (UC)

I have never played a Necro prime but I dare say this - I will not buy a single drachma item that has this attribute. That doesn't mean it is bad. It's just the flawed mechanics of how 'undead control' works. If I am unable to exploit my main attribute, then what exactly am I doing as a Necromancer?

Three Scenarios :

a) Let's assume I do not invest any drachma into UC like above.
b) Let's assume I invest 4k drachma (amount on any given class to run comfortably) which will give me roughly ~35% boost in UC.
c) Let's assume I invest 4k drachma into something else. (spellbonus/healbonus/dam reduc/weapdam etc)

How do both scenarios a) and b) differ?
According to -35% on Dr being Necro 2nd, me undead pets lose roughly ~100-200 hps. I am unable to elaborate accurately on other aspects like damage/spells/yield/utility/conversion/etc but the overall numbers are way inflated.

How does c) differ?
No brainer.

Here's my interview with a 9x40 Necromancer, Beatrix.

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'B, welcome back, it is a sheer delight to see you again on Sloth after a 7 year hiatus'
Beatrix[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'ah yes. its all coming back to me, the bitter taste :D'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'B, what can you tell us about your cool 9x40 JuJu Bokor which you rightfully earn after a 2 year grind?'
Beatrix[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'bokor is great but still dies easy'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'B, what else can be done if JuJu Bokor is what you say it is?'
Beatrix[Clan:Dragonsworn]> '9x40 pets would be nice, a reward for getting there'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'B, if UC has pertaining issues, will bonus_UC help solve said issues?'
Beatrix[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'im not even convinced this max_UC does anything, i remember thinking at the time nobody else had been s#up!d enough to buy it'
Beatrix[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'something isnt right with max UC, i'm getting better results with 27 than 28'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'B, what can you tell us about your UC cap at 9x40 and drachma eq in general for necros?'
Beatrix[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'i have 28, biggest waste of drachma'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'B, what can you tell us about death-pact, the ever so cool prime necro skill?'
Beatrix[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'lol used to get yelled at early s4 days for wasting the mana on dp, so i stopped for a while'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'B, if you had to reborn, what would you look forward to?'
Beatrix leaves west.

And that concludes our live interview on Sloth CBS Channel 2.


2) Wraithform / Death Pact

At it's inception, super cool spell / feature.

Here's my interview with a 8x40 Necromancer, Guinex.

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'G, thank you for taking the time to help us with the interview and its good to see you again after a 5 year hiatus'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'Get f*c@!%'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'Ok, moving on, what do you think of wraithform in 2020 G?'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'it is about 10% as effective as it was in s3'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'now it is great for mobs that don't hit you regardless if you have it or not'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'G - having said so, why do you still use it then?'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'i still use it because, well i want it to work i guess'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'G, what about death-pact, the ever so cool skill that brings a necro back to life?'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'if you are -15 hp or lower it probably isn't going to work'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'but now probably between 15-20 it is an 15% chance of survival'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> '-11 is probably 90% survival'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'and -20 hp you are dead'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'G, B (Beatrix) mentioned she started a necro due to your play / influence, true story?
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'isn't it obvious mate?, ask better questions'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'G, as a returning player and a core influencer, what concerns you gravely about the class at it's current phase?'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'pets are a huge concern of mine'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'duration of the summons/animates'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'prep time/costs are super high'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'but a warrior running around with 4 undead soldiers is far beyond more broken then anything has ever been'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'G if you had to reborn, what would you look forward to?'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'probably bigger juju'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'sues 9x40 juju has pretty much the same hp as my 6x40 juju'
Guinex[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'they probably have 0 saves and never land a full damage spell'

Mage[Clan:Dragonsworn]> 'G if you have any words of advice for our necro community, what would it be?'
Guinex leaves north.

And that concludes our live interview on Sloth CBS Channel 2.


All I can say is - I am thrilled to meet 2 friends coming back to Sloth after many years to see them well etc. Being an old-timer here, I would love to see them enjoy the current phase/meta of the game in their own rights as a Prime Necromancers. Again, I did not return as a mage had the class share the same fate or lack of development like it's evil cousin the Necromancer. I just hope the class can keep up to date in their presence and to champion their cause because why not.

Also I would like to add this -
Spell/Skill lag governs balance on Sloth. Warriors having 2nd wind ignores this very rule. So if this became an issue, our conversation would never end. So let's focus on making Necromancer's great again.


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