Change Class Order Easily

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Change Class Order Easily

Postby Teron » Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:03 am

Greetings.

We spend lots of time on building and playing our primary characters, but as time passes, some of us get tired from the routine and need something new. Some start new characters, some take a hiatus or some just stare at the ice fissures.

We already have a way for 9x40 avatars to empower their alts, but the mechanism is limited:
- you can only do it at 9x40
- you can only do it once
- you can only give the avatar token to the character of level 1.

I think that there should be a faster way for players to enjoy other class orders.

1. Improve the current avatar token
Here's the minimum I suggest:
- allow players of any levels to complete the avatar token quest
- allow a player forge as many tokens as he needs to play several characters
- allow the player to use the token on a character of any level as long as the levels are lower, than of the char that forged the token.

I'm not sure, whether a single token grants all the bonuses to the character, so I can't say, whether using several tokens would do any good, but if that's the case, it should be possible.

2. Let alts use exp from 9x40s

9x40s should be able to put exp into their exp tokens and let their alts gain the exp from them.
Saves time from grinding 1x40 to 4x40.

3. Make it easy to change the class order of the primary char

Currently, you can only change the class order by asking an immortal to delevel you from the 8th or avatar class to the class you want changed. I'm not sure, whether there's a limit on asking for this, but I haven't heard that someone couldn't do it. And yet, I still believe imms might get tired/annoyed to do this, if asked too often.

Deleveling from 9x40 to 2-3x40 is too limiting, because it destroys all the exp that went into all the classes, especially, into 5-9x40.

I propose the following:
- allow deleveling only classes, positions of which a player needs to change
- after deleveling a class, a player starts gaining exp at a x3 rate until he relevels the class or has exp to do it - to prevent people deleveling 3x40 to store dozens of billions of exp.
- the cost of this is free, because millions of gold go towards releveling and it makes the remaining gold worth more
- if prime and/or second classes are changed, stats reset to a reroll of 75 stat points total
- If the primary is changed, it's set to 1st level instead of 0.

A paid version could include retaining the levels.
The cost is, perhaps, double the gold it takes to level the character in those levels.

This solves several issues:
- variety: people can swap 2 classes at a time and change their game drastically
- people can keep playing their main character, which includes name and most levels
- keep get to keep the progress of their main character: most levels, quests, avatar tokens, eq.
- people can change their game more often to enjoy the variety and keep playing.
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Re: Change Class Order Easily

Postby cyprimus » Thu Apr 16, 2015 1:31 pm

I had suggested a exp bank ..about the time i was same levels as taron.. still like to see it.

as for classo changes... well.. i just made alts... so no longer need.. if i had had classo changes, prolly would still be leading with my 3-4 max avvie..p
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Re: Change Class Order Easily

Postby *juggleblood* » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:08 pm

Teron wrote:- allow players of any levels to complete the avatar token quest
- allow a player forge as many tokens as he needs to play several characters
- allow the player to use the token on a character of any level as long as the levels are lower, than of the char that forged the token.


The whole point of the token is that it's a benefit for players who've reached 9x40. The substantial exp bonuses make no sense if you could do it at low levels. And multiple tokens? How to stop one guy from giving away chars to other people. You're talking about massively inflating the exp rate for everyone.


Teron wrote:Saves time from grinding 1x40 to 4x40.


If the game is not enjoyable at 1x40 or 2x40, then why is it suddenly enjoyable at 4x40? I don't understand the 'time' that you're saving. If you're going to play a new class, then play it all the way up. Why the need to jump to 4x40?

Teron wrote:Currently, you can only change the class order by asking an immortal to delevel you from the 8th or avatar class to the class you want changed. I'm not sure, whether there's a limit on asking for this, but I haven't heard that someone couldn't do it. And yet, I still believe imms might get tired/annoyed to do this, if asked too often.


For general information...my policy is that I will delevel classes to 0 for anyone as far as they want to go. It's no bother. So for example if you are 20w 15c 10t 5 1 1 1 1 and you decide you made a mistake and want to be a wa/cl/mo, then I would delevel you to 20w 15c 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.

Teron wrote:I propose the following:
- allow deleveling only classes, positions of which a player needs to change
- after deleveling a class, a player starts gaining exp at a x3 rate...
- If the primary is changed, it's set to 1st level instead of 0.


Changing prime? Come now. Be serious. If you want to try a new prime class, you just have to make an alt.

As for making it easier to change class, there would not be a lot of support for such a code change, especially with exp bonuses tossed on top of it.
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Re: Change Class Order Easily

Postby Teron » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:53 am

1. I agree that 9x40 should have the most benefit.

Why not scale the bonuses, depending on the number on 40s of the forger?

For example:

- 5x40 20% exp increase,
- 6x40 40% exp increase, reroll,
- 7x40 60% exp increase, reroll, honor
- 8x40 80% exp increase, reroll, honor, prime
- 9x40 100% exp increase, reroll, honor, prime, drachma

Use of the next token adds the extra bonuses, doesn't stack them.

2. I'm not sure how to limit people to give the tokens only to their chars.

Are you saying it's now possible for a 9x40 to give the token to anyone?

You are right, it should be a limited resource, but restricting the player to only one token is too..limiting in my opinion.

What if someone wants to play several classos?

Perhaps, there should be a system for imms/players to tag other chars as alts.

Or use the same login for all chars and then pick one to login, as it's done in MMORPGs. I'm sure no one will code this just for exp bonuses, though. It also makes it easier to remember *one* password.

Maybe a developer can suggest a better, easier solution.

3. I like killing large hard mobs on and off Lyme. Grinding before that is boring, compared to that.

Besides, I've leveled a few chars to 2x40-3x40 and it's just repetitive. Just think how many sbs you need to pop and read. An option to make most - 1-30lev, perhaps - spells learned for a remort char would be helpful.

4. If I want to change a prime at 7x40, are you saying that I should bring an alt to 7x40 without an exp bonus? Are you serious?

What I am talking about is a way for people to change class order easily to play at relatively the same game difficulty. It shouldn't take 3 years to change a class order for 9x40.

As I've written above, getting bored with one char and not having the guts to grind another char to 9x40 is what makes people leave or play less. I've heard this many times and I feel the same way, so there should be some truth to it.

In AardMUD it takes 3-5 months to level all 7 classes and have a chance to restart the character classo.
It allows players to enjoy the variety of prime classes and class combinations on the same character, while also gaining powerups by leveling all levels in each class. This completely removes the necessity for alts.

The only problem is the number of items one needs to wear during leveling, that's why characters carry lots of items for intermediate levels and the max number of items is about 500-700.

For example, in AardMUD players:
- can use higher level spells/eq
- get cheaper skills/spell training
- increase their stat cap
- get +hitroll/+damroll bonus and +2 to all stats from a clasp
- extra 1 quest point per tier per quest

So, the avatar bonus, at some point, in addition to existing bonuses could also grant:
- -5 levels for eq requirement
- increased caps by 5 - prime or across the board
- permanent +1 dam/+1 hit

It also means that it's irrelevant, whether to use the 9x40 token on another alt or on the same char. In fact, it makes total sense to use it on the same char.

Thoughts, ideas?

Thanks.
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Re: Change Class Order Easily

Postby *juggleblood* » Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:59 am

Teron wrote:4. If I want to change a prime at 7x40, are you saying that I should bring an alt to 7x40 without an exp bonus? Are you serious?


Yes. The game doesn't begin at 7x40. If you want to experience the game as a mage, make a mage.

I don't accept your assumption that the game is not fun at lower levels.
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Re: Change Class Order Easily

Postby Teron » Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:16 pm

I play warriors and I'm more of a group player. Grinding solo just bores me, especially, at newbie levels.

I've taken a warrior to 2x40 4 times and a mo/wa 1 time. It really is more repetitive, than fun any more.

I'm not sure how Marvel does it.

Moreover, a 2x40 wa, th or mo can't expect prime roles in their groups, only since 5x40 do they gain ac/damage to point/stab/grip.
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Re: Change Class Order Easily

Postby *juggleblood* » Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:51 am

Then don't make another warrior.

Clerics, bards, druids, and to a lesser extent mages are quite easy to get to level 1x40 solo, at which point they are immediately useful to a group.

You want to make a fun group char? Play Ba/Dr/Cl.

When I made my bard I was just messing around testplaying some low level areas. But I found out quickly how fun it was to always be needed in a group. I didn't feel like I had to slowly grind my way to usefulness and it didn't even matter how good my eq was (altho some songs are useless without enough charisma).
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Re: Change Class Order Easily

Postby Teron » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:26 pm

Being useful in groups and enjoying playing a char are different things.

A group always needs a cleric, but it doesn't mean I'll play one.

That being said, an idea to make a bard class did cross my mind, but for different reasons entirely - because I can use the bard to be beneficial to my prime, such as forging stuff.
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