Reroll System

Please post your ideas to improve our mud.

Reroll System

Postby Hung » Fri Apr 04, 2014 8:46 am

S4 reroll system is much better than S3's. So, first of all, I would like to thank admin for it.
However, if one wants to get descent(80+) stats he still needs to burn hundreds of tokens. Or if he's lucky then only tens. So similar effort doesn't give similar result in that area. Also it is very disappointing to get "almost good" stats like 17 10 16 17 18(I got it recently on Wong, which is mo/wa).
So I would like to make a pair of suggestions:
1) Add ability to buy stat points on certain levels. Right now, only 9x40s can do it. However according to the forum discussions, one of the MUD main problem is lack of major achievements from 4x40 to 8x40. That may help to fill the gap.
2) Add ability to purchase stat points for drachma. Not sure about the price.
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Re: Reroll System

Postby cyprimus » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:15 pm

I would like to see a system where you get constant progress... preferably, using tokens to buy them, for example to buy a stat from 6 to 7, you may need 49 tri tokens, then after getting a ten, you need to use 121 hex tokens to get to 11, then after 14 oct tokens... each point getting exponentially more expensive.

Just my token idea..
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Re: Reroll System

Postby Marvel » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:57 pm

Your definition of "decent" stats is what most players deem "godly".

Decent stats are those that you get from the 74-capped tokens: tri tokens and single-sided dies.

17 10 16 17 18 is not "almost good". They are "real good".

The re-roll system was changed for S4 - to make it much easier for you to roll stats. The current system is far better than S3, and you can easily get playables or "good" stats.

The lack of "major" achievements from 4x40-8x40 is a gap - this is true. But that's because Sloth3 was focused on a 5x40 system and lots of things were designed based on that. The only way the 4x40-8x40 rewards/things to do gets better is if we have new material being added. That's being done, slowly. There's just gaps everywhere - we know that.
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Re: Reroll System

Postby DarkArtist » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:00 pm

Hung wrote: So similar effort doesn't give similar result in that area.


Everyone has the same odds of getting lucky. Like with a mob that pops 1/20, one person gets it on the first try 1/1 and the next guy gets it in 40 tries 1/40. There's no promise of equal effort giving equal results, only promise of equal chance of getting lucky. This system applies to equipment, spellbooks, rerolls, potion pops, etc... and gives the mud it's addictive characteristic. It is intentionally a system of gambling. Buying stats at 9x40 is a way to make experience points not become irrelevent.

There isn't a lack of advancement between 4x40 and 9x40 because during this time you'll constantly be improving the equipment you can wear, gaining new skills/spells, advancing in rank, and gaining drachma. It may appear like stagnation to then uninitiated because the levels come more slowly, but one has to remember the game is designed in such a way that one can play it for many years. If you reach 4x40 and feel bored, I suggest making alts in other prime classes and leveling in areas where you didn't play before. Don't get fixated on 9x40 or on having perfect stats.

Also be aware that the season has changed, and the average number of people online is decreasing and the frequency of xp groups is decreasing, which makes leveling slower. It generally continues it's decline to it's lowest point Jun/Jul and then picks up again in September, hitting it's peak in the winter months. Inevitably some people will misread the decline and declare that the end of the mud is here and all the immortals fault and that drastic action must be taken. That's my observation of things anyway. I could be wrong.
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Re: Reroll System

Postby Hung » Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:36 am

I'd be happy not to complain. But today I got 17 14 16 16 17. It even falls into "decent" category. However I don't like low(for mo/wa) str and dex. So, there's another suggestion. If pre 9x40 stat buying not even considered. How about possibility to transfer points from one stat to another?
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Re: Reroll System

Postby DarkArtist » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:20 am

I'm with you 100 percent on that one, I wish the stat order wasn't fixed or at least if the stat order wasn't so stupid for some class combinations. The order should be based on the ideal playable stats for the player but instead they seem to be based on some arbitrary notion about what that class would be like in "real life". And if you complain about it, you just get the answer that some sacrifices have to be made or that some class orders work better. My thought is every class combination should have optimal playing stats rather than some notional realism. ....end rant....

I've thought about this one many times before and anticipated the objections to changing some of the stat orders. In the end I don't see why the stat orders couldn't be corrected or why the stat order couldn't be player-selected on char creation. Any chars created prior to the change would retain their stat order, and any chars created after the change would use the new system.

But don't hold your breath because a code change of this magnitude could only be done be a select few coders, who have their own coding priorities. It's the kind of thing we'd have to just consistently submit as an idea and hope that one day someone picks it up.
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Re: Reroll System

Postby Hung » Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:52 pm

Thanks everyone for the detailed explanation of the situation and sharing your opinions. I totally agree that stat ordering should be reviewed. Martial artists should have strength first. However I'd mostly vote for a stat transferring. I've been rolling Wong for a week. Burned many tokens. Best stat sets I got were:
17 12 16 17 18
and
18 11 16 17 18

If I'd be able to transfer pair of points from wis to int, I'd keep it. But having int lower than 13 just hurts my eyes. :)
I think it would be great to let players do 2 point transfer after each reroll, so a player could tune his roll to something he wants.
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Re: Reroll System

Postby *Splork* » Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:28 pm

We probably won't allow stats to be bought before Avatar 40 level or transferred, unless its an extremely rare exception like a quest or something. My own feeling is that this is what eq is for. Godlike or great stats are normally earned through extreme luck ( rarely happens ) or through hours of game play and effort ( to aquire the tokens ). And many, many of us like the way this works.

I do agree with DarkA, I've always hated the fact our stat orders are set for us. Especially when I played a thief, it just made no sense.

His idea in regards to allowing the order to be picked upon login is a good one and has been spoken about in the past. However, now that we are mid-game, about the only way to do this is enable the option and anyone who chooses this option would then need to roll over. I am sure there are other ways to do this but that is probably the easiest and fair.

I'll banter it between the ranks and see what opinions we have.
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Re: Reroll System

Postby Hung » Sun Apr 06, 2014 1:20 pm

Specifying stat order is great idea I gladly support.
Another suggestion is to add site feature - dummy rolling. It's a page where one specifies token type(triangular, die, hexagonal, octagonal) and number of rolls, then clicks "Reroll" button and it shows corresponding rolls. It could be used to evaluate how many rolls are required to get desired stats and to help in understanding of how the reroll system works at all.
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Re: Reroll System

Postby Hung » Fri May 09, 2014 6:53 am

There's another suggesion. I think it'll be great to have a way to avoid reroll hell for the immensive drachma cost. I.e. 700dr for 80, 850 for 82 and 1000 for 84. Notice: these sums shouldn't be rolls, but a player should be able to spread them how he wants.
Of course, some might say: "It's insane to spent limited resource for the good stats. Who'll use it?". Well, at least I'll. Right now, all my chars are rolled succesfully. But if I ever make new one, I would gladly use this feature instead of going thru reroll again, because that could be very depressing. Even knowing that this choice will cost me get 1-2 drachma items I'll never get.
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