Warriors - wherefore art thou?

[Thraxas]

Theres been a whole raft of changes mooted on the crier recently, some by imms as serious suggestions for us to comment on, some pie in the sky wouldnt it be nice ifs by players with vested interest and bias towards their own character and playstyle, some fantastic easy to implement suggestions that I would never have thought of but are so obvious once pointed out, this is fantactic, the level of engagement by both players and imms here is truely amazing and impressive.

In the mix of all these solutions flying around what occurs to me is the simple question : What's the problem that they're trying to solve? (That really is my biggest problem with the druid thread ... I simply do not understand what the problem is thats trying to be fixed).

From my point of view S4 works well and while theres room for improvement there are very few fundamental problems, the problems that I do see all really boil down to these 2 issues:

1. Once past 4x40 there has been a long slog before any sort of reward or step up in power and this is demoralising. This has been addressed through the opening up of Av levels on a regular basis once past 4x40. Job done, great work thanks.

2. This is a group mud, the best xp comes from groups by a long way and while I among others am a big fan of soloing, realistically the only way to make serious progression is by spending time in xp groups, so the issue I see is that there cannot be an effective xp group without a group tank, which currently means a high level warrior prime. How many times have we seen a group of 10+ high level players all ready to group, someone prepared to lead then it all falls apart because theres no tank around, how many times has a group been running for a few hours with many players coming and going, leadership changing, but as soon as the tank leaves the group falters and soon its "gt no tank on - group over thanks all" Warrior Prime is and should be the best group tank, but it seems to me that group xp is over reliant on them. ... solutions on a postcard please ...

T

[Dragoth]

Make monks and druids viable tanks, as per other topic.

[Shyla]

On a smiliar note I have said it before and i will say it again. THis protection system SUCKS!!!!!!
I can't not automan back with my client or if I can I have no idea how and frankly why should I have to anyways??? This man back stuff is not working I don't care what the immorts say. I used to lead a lot of groups and would group fairly often, but I don't anymore. The group is constantly chaosing and falling which puts me up front and then I am getting killed b/c I don't man back soon enough, or I am constantly manning back and have no time to heal tank which is just ridiculous. And I know you will say tough luck we aren't getting rid of it and we are sick of your whining, but seriously it really is a bad system. I know other leaders let newbies group with them, but if I lead I will have totell newbies sorry you can't join b/c all you do is add one more person to backline with no benefit and cause my group to chaos even more. I love newbies and this is NOT right, but with new protect system what can I do??? and how many newbies in groups have died b/c they don't have clients or don't know how to manback I mean why are we basically forcing people to have clients and code all this crap that some of us still can't do?? I know I am probably in the minority but I figured I might as well post and be slammed over this.
Also we used to be able to tell newbies don't assist on the mob just heal as needed and now there isn't an option for people to just help out without attacking the mob b/c everyone gets drawn in the second the group chaos if not before that and there is no way NOT to be drawn into the fight.
I know you won't go back to the old way but can't we at least find a new way that is better than this option we have now? And no I don't have an alternative frankly I didn't mind the old way. All I know is people shouldn't have to write scripts just to safely participate in groups. All this need for scripting is doing is rewarding botters and hurting people like me who don't script but who don't bot either.
just my 10 cents
Shyla

[Dragoth]

You make some valid points but why rant when you dont offer a solution Shyla ? Propose something to fix this predicament and i am sure immortals will listen.

[jezer]

write back

You stumble as you try to write back.

You stumble as you try to write back.

You write back.

[Thraxas]

e.g.

21:11:[Wimpy]..... [Group] ~WimpY~ all in, keep tank alive
21:11:[Wimpy]..... [Group] ~WimpY~ k grp over
21:11:[Ferrum].... [Group] thank you
21:11:[Wimpy]..... [Group] ~WimpY~ the blondie wants to dine instead of xpz
21:11:[Cizin]..... [Group] thatks wimpy .)
21:11:[Katie]..... [Group] * thanks for leading, wimp
21:11:[Norks]..... [Group] thanks for group
21:12:[You]....... [Group] thanks wimpy
21:12:[Jezer]..... [Group] quick 40m thx
21:12:[Xxx]....... [Group] ty wimps
21:13:[Tbg]....... [Group] we still hittin same stuff?
21:13:[Wimpy]..... [Group] ~WimpY~ nope, grps over. katie wants to dine

Tank leaves = Group Over ... leader still running, stabber still running, plenty healo/blasters still running, xp good, well populated group wants to keep running but Tank leaves so Group Over....

Cant blame Katie, excellent job of tanking as always and understandable to go for dinner, it just seems wrong that we're so reliant on her and the small number of other tanks in play atm in what professes to be a group orientated mud.

Possible Solutions: Make Monks (with dam reduction) / Druids (shifted) / Juju's viable alternative group tanks.

T

[blackmore]

Just curious, but were there any monk or druid primes on that could have taken over tanking? I'm not sure that a monk prime can't be at least a functional tank right now (I don't know about anyone else), but you need to find someone that's going to get tank gear (dam reduce, ac and hps), knowing they would only use them if they wanted to group but no wa prime was available. I wouldn't put the effort in just to be an emergency backup.

[jezer]

After being a druid and being treated as a cleric, now I play like a monk and they want me to be a warrior?

[Dragoth]

wouldnt it be nice to have different styles of tanking though ? Warriors tank through ac and parry. Monks tank through damage reduction and dodge and druids use whatever the forms give them ?

[Roadrunr]

here's an idea...rather than making druids or monks more powerful by making them tank-worthy, how about making warrior a class thats worth playing again. Just sayin...if people aren't playing WA, there's probably a reason (solo xp capabilities of other classes maybe?)

[Dragoth]

There are plenty of warriors around, but very few of them have a good tank gear, DSfren is probably the best tank around now, but he just chooses to solo or run small groups most of the time for some reasons. Stun and Jex are also worthy tanks who prefer to solo and Wronsky needs some levels and EQ. You cant just become a group tank overnight, it takes time, so Katie is pretty much all we have at the moment . And there is absolutely nothing wrong with a warrior, one of the best classes in game currently.