Avatar leveling

[Toxis]

Well I can completely understand Cizin's point of view, but it does get boring when you play for weeks at a time and only get 1hp 1ma 1mv for 5.1 bil exp and 7.862 million gold. I like to play multiple characters, but the sloth system makes it nearly impossible to play more than one char.

So on one hand I agree with Cizin, but at the other hand I agree with the others. Don't open av at 3x40 pls, I'm begging you. Most people who get av1 deserve it. I wouldn't say most tri40's deserve it. But I don't see why there's a problem opening up av levels at 4x40. I would just make the av levels more exp costly.

I'm quite happy with the system as it is right now, I'm glad for the work being done. I've gotten my head on straight after a very long time and I feel great. I do believe the work will be neverending and I hope the game will be around long after I'm gone.

Thanks Everyone,
Brad

[Dragoth]

Some of you guys need to stop being so subjective and think more generally.

It does not matter one bit who deserves what, the game will sort that out as people who do not invest enough time in the game will never get to know the game and experience or achieve what dedicated players can. But what i think does matter most is that both the noobs and the pro's can enjoy the game when they play it, be it at level 20 or level 6x40.

What are the main purposes of the game ? Why should i spend my time here and not elsewhere ( granted the plethora of options currently its a viable question, is it not ). The only reason for someone to play a game is to have fun while he is doing it. Yes, definition of fun is not the same for everyone, but it shares the same principles.

First of all, the game needs to be involving. I think we will all agree that once you character has maxed out ( i.e has no room for improvement whatsoever ) and you dont plan on making any new chars, the game as a game ceases to be entertaining; yes you can show off your uber char to people and do some power testing runs to show yourself how cool you are by soloing demogorgon or whatever, but generally there is no reason to continue spending your time on that game.

So, progression is what keeps you involved - as basically it allows you see the return on the time you have invested ( i.e you get tripple stab, you can now get 33% more exp and gold to get new interesting skills to extend your character and you can now explore new areas and solo bigger mobs to get better eq ).

Why do people get sucked in so easily and why does Brad likes making newbies so much ? It's simple - progress is at it's peak when you need to invest little time to see your character advance, hence involvement is also at its peak. You get new skills every 20 minutes, you get new eq every hour etc.

Why do people leave ? You can re-read Van's topic, but to sum it up - very little progress for the time invested. If there is no progress in sight, there is no point trying to get anywhere or do anything, it's pretty much the same as having maxed out your char - even though you have not, but the promise of next advance is so far away and so vague that it's pretty much the same.
How many people would spend 1-2 weeks forging an item that would only give you 1hp 1ma and 1mv if there was nothing else to do? Not many. So, take away the promise of a new skill and a character advance and leveling becomes a useless chore that people will get bored of very quickly.

Why is avatar leveling important ? Because not unlike the first levels when you start playing the game - first levels come quickly and give you a huge character boost and you get sucked in again. All the players tend to patiently claw their way to avatar exactly for that reason. Getting 1hp 1ma and 1mv might not be interesting or helpful, but the pie in the sky with an Avatar sign on it is beckoning to end their boredom. The longer it takes people to get to avatar and the less their increases in power from normal leveling, the more people will leave the game.

Thats why getting 1 avatar level after every 5 total levels is a good idea. Is it going to be enough ? Maybe, maybe not.

[jezer]

Thraxas you sound like your trying to "keep up" with everyone else, and you can't and it's hurting your competitive side, or your pride. Let it go. I doubt you'll agree with me here, but I figure, if you were Cizin you'd feel differently right now...

I have the same battle. When I look at the who list, I find myself counting up all my levels to see if I am in fact higher than the person on top of me. I actually think I'm anti-competitive in real life, yet I seem to be guilty of wanting what other have... more levels. I have to give myself a kick up the rear sometimes, it's actually some of my self imposed goals and expectations that ruin the game for me. I ran stinkn' chasm/crypt/pos plane/onyx for 14hrs yesterday (only got 725m) in a group because I set myself this goal of getting avatar before I go on this course next weekend. Today, I forced myself to rent and take a break, best thing I did.

All the same, I agree with what your saying. Just pointing out part of the problem is actually partially us, as real as the problems actually are. I somehow doubt you might have the same opinion if you were far out in front... ask yourself honestly.

See when ya talk in your posts the language you use and the vibe is always strongly about milestones, which suggests to me your strongly goal orientated. Nothing hurts like a dull pound when your driven to get there and your very clear about where you are going. Frustration sets in quickly. I have it at work at the moment. Started off on this conversion project like a bat out of hell, a month later with so much work still to do and no end in sight, I find it difficult to even concentrate. It's a personality thing.

Is this you? http://www.personalitypage.com/INTJ.html or http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html

[Dragoth]

I guess you were addressing me Jezer, not sure why you mentioned thraxas though.

I imagine Cizin and I are quite different and i could never be in his position, competition is not my thing and what matters to me is enjoyment during the process. I just cant grind 24 hours a day for weeks without seeing how this changes my character for the better. I need to see feedback from the game and i need my next power-ups to be at least on the horizon.

As for the rest of it - I could have been in front long time ago as there were only a few people who were higher level than me when i was playing and i was pretty addicted at the time with alot of free time on my hands playing for 12 hours a day, but after i hit 3x40 i simply could not make myself get those levels from 31 war to 40 quad, realizing that my gameplay would not change for a long time, aegis was not that compelling to me and everything else was too far away with every day being the same.

I had only a few good areas to run on AH at the time as the rest were crap so the process of exp getting is the same boring runs over and over again for my 30mil per hour, i had no new skills untill tripple attack in a few billions exp away, but that was not enough to make me want to do something i was not enjoying anymore.

As there was nothing else to do besides waiting for BH exp groups i switched off for 6 months or so to do other things. A little time ago i tried playing again with a different char but ran into the same problems all over again..so i decided to speak up as i'm sure im not alone in my thinking, especially after reading Blackmore's feedback and Van's farewell comments.

I'm pretty sure there are plenty of other people who left that would agree with what we are saying, but possibly cant as they dont play anymore... alot of people that were playing here 6 months ago and were at the top of the foodchain are no longer here..

[Dragoth]

http://www.personalitypage.com/INTP.html

Thats actually quite a good description of my personality

[Skyv]

This might over-complicate things, but my suggestion would be a combination of what we have now and the first option. One issue I see with opening up 1 avatar level for every 5 over 4x40 is that most people are carrying a decent amount of sponge levels by then (everybody but Nobody). I'm not sure what's typical, but my guess is that most are at least level 10 in all classes by then (which would mean 8 av levels) or close to 20 (which would mean 16 immediate avatar levels open up).

My thought would be to maintain the opening of the first 5 at 4x40 as it is now, and open an additional avatar level for every 3rd 5th thru 8th gained, but only count levels above 20. To Dragoth's point, you'd have a little more regular reward system (every 3rd versus every 5th). By 8x40, folks would be eligible for av31, so there's still a decent milestone for the last push toward avatar. Opening up as many as 16 avatar levels as soon as you hit 4x40 would definitely open up some playing options, but that's a lot of levels...

Just my two cents
Skyv

[jezer]

Bah, Dragoth, I got mixed up on the names. Sorry.

Not the first time I've got you two confused. For some reason to me you are similar.

[Thraxas]

Thraxas you sound like your trying to "keep up" with everyone else, and you can't and it's hurting your competitive side, or your pride. Let it go. I doubt you'll agree with me here ...

erm what? what post of mine are exactly are you responding to? I have posted on this subject in a different thread (see below) but I have no idea how your response could relate to what I wrote; I have no problem with trying to keep up because I dont try to, it therefore dosen hurt my pride, so no I dont agree with you here.

1. you should auto raise your prime skill (dex for thief for an example) at 1x40, 2x40 etc. Other skills might be raised by eq only.
Would add real diff between 1x40 and 3x40 and 8x40 chars

very nice idea, there should be some definate and substantial reward for each and every 40 a real well done for getting there celebration rather than just a chorus of grats and sense of satisfaction. Of course +40 dr for each 40 gained would just be boring ...

Maybe give us the chance to buy the prime stat for the same cost as the 40th level so similar to S3:5x40's buying stats but scaled costs as we progress and maybe only from 5x40 so at a similar level of progression as on S3 and only 1 per 40 so a max of +4 prime stat before finishing av levels (+maxstat of course) (I cant see imms backdating stat increases to 1x40 for all of us but maybe I'm wrong ... )

T

[Briza]

Will not vote, as I am still too new to this game to really understand how everything works - just the 8 classes bit is kind of overwhelming and confusing as it is

But progression and accomplishment to me, and ever changing game play, and not having to do the same thing over and over again, and some sort of reward (does not always have to be in the form of lvls or power)... all this is fun to me....

And although I am very low lvl, with still much to do, see and accomplish... I can see myself easily getting bored later on, and quitting, as i do not want to spend a month grinding on the same thing, and not seeing anything back in return.

I played many MMO's - WoW was my last one - and the game was fun - but everything was a grind, and to my knowledge still is - long long grind,(granted they make money off people playing) - but yeah I got bored with the grind, maybe go back again with the new expansion, who knows for how long, but anyhow, probably lost my point in the babbling....

Anyways - I hope I do not get bored with this game anytime soon Still have too much to learn

[*Splork*]

I guess this thread is pretty much over with. Let me talk to the others and get everyone's feeling on this and we will see if we will move forward with it.

Splork

[*Isabo*]

Good day, mortals.

I gave my beloved Apirana instructions to let you guys train avatar levels in the way exposed in the option 1).

He said he needed to do some adjusting and that he will be ready in the next crash or reboot.

Best regards.

Pd. We will be carefuly controling it next months. If you find any bug on it, better report it or i will personally take care of you.

[Rynquald]

Thanks for the change.

[Dragoth]

This is a very welcome change for the mud, thanks to all the immortal staff!