Avatar leveling

[*Splork*]

We are bantering about two ideas to open up more Avatar levels to players:
1) At 4x40, every 5 total levels will open up 1 avatar level
2) Move avatar levels to start at 3x40, with every 40 adding another 5 avatar levels.

Thoughts?
Splork

[*Isabo*]

Hi, mortals.

A little aclaration :

1) At 4x40, every 5 total levels will open up 1 avatar level

The total levels here would count levels AFTER 4x40, that is, in the class five to eight. For instance :

Acme's last logon was Wed Aug 25 19:33:50 2010

[40n 40c 40o 40b 40w 28m 23t 22d 9a] Acme is afk

Would have open up to level (40+28+23+22)/5, that is, till level 22.

Best regards.

Pd. I bet Nobody is going to hate it.

[Shyla]

nah nobody is leveling up to 40 all at once so probably won't mess with avatar til he can level al up at once

[jezer]

I see a couple of 3x40 have already voted for option 2.

I think they will regret that at later levels.

I'm grateful either way, although I clearly see option 1 as a more sustained linear power improvement.

[adrix]

I can see good points in both options:

Option 1: past 4x40, the way the avatar levels open would give each level in your 5th~8th class more meaning, and a greater sense of accomplishment rather than "ok, 20 more levels till i can get something i want."

Option 2: at 3x40, aegis and a few low avatar skills opens up and speeds up the jump to 4x40.

There are also not so good points in both options:

Option 1: Going from 3x40 to 4x40 will be the same speed its always been, and some people will get discouraged.

Option 2: You'll still have to gain level 40 in another class to open up 5 more avatar levels.

My thoughts:
When levels start taking massive amounts of xp, do I really want to have to level to 40 in a class to gain access to the avatar skill/damage point/mana regen that I'm only one av level from getting? A process that could take months depending on my schedule.

Or would I rather be able to buy the 5 cheapest levels and get it within a week or maybe 2?

Option 1, I think, is the real option here. I'll forgo my immediate (but small) jump in power for a much larger (and more logically progressive) one in the not too distant future.

[Dragoth]

Agreed with Adrix, Option 1 is more progressive and should enhance the feeling of accomplishment and making leveling after 4x40 more bearable.

However, i still think there should be something at 3x40 as well. In sloth 3 we had to race towards 3x40 to get to lyme where you had access to all new solo and group areas and chopping and an absolutely new game experience, it was a real transition akin to getting level 80 in wow ( I remember people staying up nights and days at 2x40 when they got close to 3x40 ).

Now, we just get our 3x40 eq which doesnt really provide much and are stuck cycling the same mobs over and over again. In sloth3 there was a distinct feeling of being under 3x40 and over 3x40 and avatar and the game was based around that.

Suggestions:

We have 160 levels in total after 4x40, 160/5 = 32 avatar levels at 8x40, i suggest opening up 3 avatar levels at 3x40 to give the players that small boost and a taste of avatardom by letting them have a cheaper sanc (aegis) and maybe drop down a bonus to blasting and healing to level 3 avatar, also some not overpowering but class-important skills like sleight of hand ( increased speed for apply poison ) can be dropped down to those levels.

We then have 5 more avatar levels at 8x40 till end-game , those should be very expensive in terms of exp and provide the maximum power boost possible, where you start gaining Stat tokens as well as good skills for every level, so you will have a choice to accumulate a few stat tokens to buy some skills when you reach avatar 40.

Also, since chopping is still 3x40 restricted and some areas on lyme still are, i suggest boosting them a bit, making them dangerous and yet rewarding. In fact, i think chopping needs to be a level up from BH exp and the rest, since it's only available at 3x40, it should be involving, dangerous and yet provide good returns on time invested. By 3x40 a person should have accumulated some knowledge of the mud and the gameplay should evolve with the players. Maybe it's worth making a few areas that are even higher level restricted later in the game.

Sloth4 lacked that feeling of progression that sloth3 had due to a limited number of levels, everything on sloth4 seems homogenous and monotonous hence people got bored quickly but i think that can be quite drastically improved if creators implement a few small things.

[Cizin]

i guess it is my time to be a bitch.

I read all posts and suggestions and i must say i really hate it.

People talking about 3x40 players leveling avatar levels ?HELLOOOO ?

I thought we are 8x40 mud now ?!? 3x40 player is a real baby compared to 8x40 player and you want him to level avatar levels ? And not just that ! You want him access to some of premium avatar spells/skills ?!? WTF!
And why ? because people are LAZY to even try to gain experience for themselves ! I am not talking about solo exps.
I am talking about how many player ever try to lead groups ? 2? 3?
All i can read is a whine coming from those who already wants super overpowered chars at lev 1x40!

C'mon people ! Not just everybody is supposed to be 6x40 , 8x40 or Av 40 in couple of month playing ! Why is it so hard to accept this is not Sloth 3 and you can't get AV40 or Avatar skills/spells in few days ? You need to work really hard to deserve it!
I've seen quite a few old experienced players leaving Sloth 4 just because they expected to be much much easier to regain all their powers and skills. I am sorry about that but as Splork said, this is completely different game!

I remember Splork was very reluctant opening first 5 Av levs at 4x40. And now we are talking about giving some of ours real newbs Avatar skills/spells/bonuses just because it is hard to level past 3x40 and just because we want them taste it for a bit?

why not working on 4x40 5x40 6x40 levs more. why not adding more bonuses for those milestone levels instead of giving people UNDESERVED presents just because they while a lot and it is probably EASIER ?


I thought you have quite a bunch of Imms with lots of ideas and willing to code new stuff. Why taking easiest way and ruin what Sloth 4 is all really about ?

This all really pi**es me off and I am sorry I am so blunt. You can hate me but this is my opinion.

Cizin

[DSF]

It's just a game. But It's a long term game. Dun compare it to S3 and u'll feel much much better and for those who played S3 before, you can dream of the Avatar skills/spells and work towards it? I'm one of those who worked for it. Not that i'm high up...but well...i've advance and overtook quite a few players. Even Wimpy is working hard not to allow me to overtake him. So...Play it to whichever level you are comfortable.

And one thing, I'm with Cizin on the fact that you should work for it as it's premium skills/spells as getting it then will make it all the more satisfying.

Just my view on this.

Cheers

[Dragoth]

As your said it yourself Cizin, it's a 8x40 mud. That means there are alot of levels to get and that only means that the skills are now more spread out than ever.
The whining is not because everyone wants to become more powerful earlier in the game, but because there needs to be a more involving game-play, what is involving about running the same areas over and over again for months to get 1, or 5 levels that really do not give you any satisfaction or character upgrades ? Games are supposed to be involving and the only involvement comes from seeing your character progress, to experience new things and evolve as a player.

Yes you managed to get to 7x40 rather quickly by running exp solo and nonstop, but how many people are there who are prepared to do what you do ? I think all the whining from experienced players answers that.
And lets not forget that not all of us are going to be getting milestone EQ for our levels either. How many people are actually 4x40 and over and play on a day to day basis? There arent many, not everyone can withstand the monotony.

The skills from avatar levels 1-3 are not game-changing, but they are just a taste of what's to come nothing else.

Instead of limiting the players, grow the game. There is alot of exp required to get to 8x40 and even more to get to level 40 avatar, but it doesnt need to stop there, since noone is avatar 40 yet, there `can be plenty of things planned and done for when you reach it, perma stats, new eq, skill and spell upgrades just to name a few.
The game doesnt need to stop at level 40 avatar and here we are talking about limiting our players enjoyment of the game because you dont want them to get a little bit more exp ? This is stupid and self-destructing. The idea of every game is to get the player hooked by any means neccesary, sloth gets you hooked because it's so interesting for the first 120-200 levels, but then it just stops caring as everything becomes slower and slower.

[jezer]

I seriously enjoyed your post Cizin! Genuinely passionate and unreserved. A real classic.

I kind of agree too, I think avatar being 4x40 is a tradition worth protecting. I'm actually surprised with the generosity of option 1. For me it would open avatar up in such a way where I think I would end up leveling other classes before leveling avatar up to the max anyways. I think this is good, it gives a player choice... level avatar to get more power... or level other classes. Don't forget there is still an incentive to level a single class to 40 for better shifts/pets/supplicants. It becomes a competition and science as to what to spend your xp on!

For me it also fixes my "shapeshift mastery" problem. In sloth 3 we got that at the same level as phoenix to help maintain the form. Phoenix is 7x40 in this game... so some quick maths... (40 x 3) / 5 = 24 shapeshift mastery is 24 avatar! It's beautiful. High five to whoever thought of it. Isabo?

[Dragoth]

Phoenix is 7x40 in this game... so some quick maths... (40 x 3) / 5 = 24 shapeshift mastery is 24 avatar! It's beautiful. High five to whoever thought of it. Isabo?

It's not 7x40 jezer, but rather 120 levels after 4x40 or 280 total levels. That can be achieved in a number of ways without being 7x40.

[jezer]

I did realise that T, and that's why I'm calling option 1 surprising generous, to be honest I would have been happier with less, but never disappointed with more... unless it ruins the game, and Cizin makes a valid point there. (There is a balance)

[Dragoth]

It might be generous to druids, but they really need the generosity, it might also turn out to be over-generous to necros as some of the pets are avatar based and that needs to be adressed by making pets dependant on total levels rather than avatar levels.

As for Cizin, his situation is pretty unique, he leveled on hopes of being the first in everything and get his milestone eq and that's what kept him going, but its not to say that he didnt work hard where he is now, he sure did but should the game be based around his persona and his circumstances? Dont think so.

[Cizin]

As for Cizin, his situation is pretty unique, he leveled on hopes of being the first in everything and get his milestone eq and that's what kept him going, but its not to say that he didnt work hard where he is now, he sure did but should the game be based around his persona and his circumstances? Dont think so.

I got my milestone eq when i was 5x40 and that was a long long time ago. That didn't stop me to gradually gain more levels and get stronger and powerful.

And now you actually comparing 3x40 and 4x40 player to me or Wimpy or Toxis ? Asking more fairness?! more sympathy ? have you ever ask yourself did you deserve it ?

Whatever.

I don't want to argue here.

Playing classo 8 Avatar has always been an honor and great achievement. Not a race of greedy people.

I suggest you all move your ass and work harder and enjoy this game.

[Dragoth]

And now you actually comparing 3x40 and 4x40 player to me or Wimpy or Toxis ? Asking more fairness?! more sympathy ? have you ever ask yourself did you deserve it ?

Whatever.

I don't want to argue here.

Playing classo 8 Avatar has always been an honor and great achievement. Not a race of greedy people.

I suggest you all move your ass and work harder and enjoy this game.

Im not comparing anyone, im just saying those are a few people who are still playing and possibly enjoying the game past 4x40 as they just log in to do their usual routine thing over and over again.

As for sympathy or fairness, im not the one who needs it. I love sloth and would love to see it thrive in any circumstances, whether its a game that's requires persistence and dedication or a game that's more lenient, more progressive and in turn more enjoyable for the general population. What i would not like to see is people leaving my favorite game in packs because the game is too uneventful and lacking in progress.

As you can see for yourself, there are a few people who are unhappy with how things are going now. Should creators ignore all those comments and listen to you, Cizin ? I personally think not, as i have said before you are quite an individual, but basing something on minorities interests is never the path to success.

In the end it's mostly Splorks choice who to listen to and where to take the game from here and im confident in his abilities as a leader and i know he will choose the best path if we give him all the feedback and information we can.