monk tank anyone?

[Yinao]

[quote:1yoitokb]I think it sucky that a wa/mo = mo/wa on damage wise for grips or touch.
Unless I'm incorrect ahd Monk Prime gets a higher damage multiplier like
Thief Primes do.[/quote:1yoitokb]


Monk prime starts with three more nat dam compared to wa / mo.


[quote:1yoitokb]Chucky I'm a newbie for life[/quote:1yoitokb]


This is comming more and more true every day.

[strider]

yup, vaire can apply faster than you can focus, assuming he doesn't fail or poison himself. then there's also the matter that vaire has spent enough coins on poison to buy a mansion. vaire runs -5ac so don't even talk about thieves running high dam w/ high ac. no stat eq just all +dam or +hit and your ac is ruined being a thief. a single stab by vaire at +29 dmg does less than his death touch does at +35 hand dmg. just a mob being nostab means that it has more xp in it. there are few 5mil mobs that vaire can stab splork with a double (never rely on trip stab you'll hit maybe one a run), but many nostab mobs that can be splorked will cap you. ohh ya, thiefs are sposed to kill fast, you're a monk go get in touch w/ your inner child or something. don't forget that monks get same hps as thieves, but monks also get MANA even though they only have one spell. the problem is your compairing what avatar thieves do to what the lil monk does with his deathgrip. ask any dtouching char, it rocks.

[Leaf]

Lvl 40 Thief can do more stab dam then a Monk Avatar at lvl 30

Also I never said Thiefs will have more AC then Monk. I'm saying they are
about the same.

[Medios]

You begin to tremble as you struggle to focus ki.
An elegant centaur hates your guts!
You've got a good feeling about this fight...
You circle around an elegant centaur and expertly put her in a deathgrip.

<674hp 87ma 210mv 1,628,585,373xp>
An elegant centaur's blow passes right through you with no effect!
An elegant centaur misses you with her hit.
An elegant centaur's blow passes right through you with no effect!
You quickly duck aside and use an elegant centaur's strength against her in a brutal counterattack!
An elegant centaur's blow passes right through you with no effect!
An elegant centaur gestures and utters some strange sounds!
You hear a sudden gong.
An elegant centaur vanishes in a burning wind.

<676hp 88ma 210mv 1,628,595,653xp>
You maintain your deathgrip on an elegant centaur.

<683hp 89ma 213mv 1,628,602,933xp>
Ok.
You form a cone of frost in your hand and launch it at an elegant centaur.

<685hp 64ma 214mv 1,628,611,613xp>
An elegant centaur's blow passes right through you with no effect!
An elegant centaur's blow passes right through you with no effect!
An elegant centaur's blow passes right through you with no effect!
An elegant centaur misses you with her hit.
An elegant centaur's blow passes right through you with no effect!
An elegant centaur gestures and utters some strange sounds!
You hear a sudden gong.
An elegant centaur vanishes in a burning wind.

<685hp 64ma 214mv 1,628,619,413xp>
sk
You maintain your deathgrip on an elegant centaur.
An elegant centaur is dead! R.I.P.
Total exp for kill is 3458667.
Your blood freezes as you hear an elegant centaur's death cry.
You get gold coins from the corpse of an elegant centaur that's on the ground.

[Modello]

Figured I should throw some comment in on this thread as the person whose been grippin and touchin for the longest. I play Nab and to put it simply.... if you want to play just like a thief... play a thief. Mike summed it up already but to reiterate you should know your characters strengths. Monks excel on nostab mobs... period. There are plenty of nostab mobs on lyme once you get your monk there. Stab mobs that thief's traditionally hit are well... best for thieves. A high damage monk with deathtouch can do some of these mobs reasonably well.

I've menttioned this several times to folks in game but don't underestimate deathgrip. It really is quite effective and remains so even at high avatar lvl considering the lower hitrate of deathtouch.

I will agree that the difference between prime and nonprime grip/touch damage is negligable. I'm not sure where Nick got his info about primes having +3 more damage to start but it may be true. Nonetheless nonprimes can grip/touch for essentially the same damage which is a bit scrubby. I've seen this first hand in tests in the arena. My 2 cents is it shouldn't be so... primes should to more damage. The counter argument has always been that prime have kensai etc. but .... kinda flimsy argument to me.

Finally the ac thing.... I guess it depends on how you want to run your monk and whether you have warrior in classo. I can tell you that if you run high dam with ALL the possible damage eq at 5x40 and 18/100str you won't get better than -8ac..... and I'm pretty sure that's whether you have warrior in classo or not.

Peace,
Keith

[Modello]

I stand corrected... Mike just informed me -9ac at max damage for a monk prime with warrior is possible.

[alias]

A terracotta soldier goes limp as your deathtouch cuts off his life force.
A terracotta soldier is dead! R.I.P.
Total exp for kill is 5461622.
Your blood freezes as you hear a terracotta soldier's death cry.
You get gold coins from the corpse of a terracotta soldier that's on the ground.
There were 1404 coins.


I know you were all thinking I couldn't solo but I do get by.

Alias

[Malison]

[quote:31kgobiq]wouldn't it be nice if deathgrip affected mobs hitrate for that very reason?

oh wait.... it does....
[/quote:31kgobiq]

completely missing the point. -hit is strictly not -attacks (think 'slow'), which is the more realistic result of a deathgrip . also you can't web something that's being gripped so the -hit that you do get atm gives you no real advantage.

[Alberich]

this is how a thief rolls!

929/929hp 408/410ma 209/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
Mog hates your guts!
Mog quickly avoids your backstab, and you nearly cut your finger!
Mog quickly avoids your backstab, and you nearly cut your finger!

929/929hp 408/410ma 194/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
de
You disengage yourself from Mog!

929/929hp 409/410ma 196/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
bst
Blastem[chat]> 'hehe'

929/929hp 410/410ma 197/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
Mog remembers you, and ATTACKS!
You are viciously massacred by Mog's pound.

785/929hp 410/410ma 197/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
de
No way! You are fighting for your life!

787/929hp 410/410ma 198/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
You fail to extricate yourself from combat!

787/929hp 410/410ma 198/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
Your peri brushes you with her wing.
You feel better!

838/929hp 410/410ma 199/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
de
You disengage yourself from Mog!

838/929hp 410/410ma 199/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
You are viciously massacred by Mog's pound.

687/929hp 410/410ma 199/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
bst
de
No way! You are fighting for your life!

688/929hp 410/410ma 200/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
You disengage yourself from Mog!

690/929hp 410/410ma 200/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>
bst
Mog quickly avoids your backstab, and you nearly cut your finger!

691/929hp 410/410ma 186/321mv AC: -6.0 Align: +10 Hit/Dam: +17/+22 XP total <1,596,283,948>

[Leaf]

At least Keith agree somewhat regarding the grips/touch.

[Yinao]

Alberich needs more +hit eq?

[banedon]

Finally have a little time off from work to catch up on things, so heres my 2 cents.

Lemme see, monks run into the same problem as thieves where ac is concerned, damage or stab.
Bane went from a constant -8 ironed with 6 hand dam and 18/30 str to a -5 ironed with 13 hand dam with 18/100. granted, that would be a little better if i had some of the more elite eq, but still, there is that big trade off, and depends on how a person wants to run their monk.

I also agree with the idea that mobs should be SEVERELY hampered in their ability to hit you back while you are behind them choking the living hell out of them.

As for tanking, I have learned that besides the fact that my classo isnt the best idea ive ever had, monks are best in a supporting role as a 2.tank or stabber, that way they can get in and do the damage they are able to do, without taking the beating that their lower ac normally entails.

again just my 2 cents.

josh

[Weasel]

[quote="alias":bzwhuef8]A terracotta soldier goes limp as your deathtouch cuts off his life force.
A terracotta soldier is dead! R.I.P.
Total exp for kill is 5461622.
Your blood freezes as you hear a terracotta soldier's death cry.
You get gold coins from the corpse of a terracotta soldier that's on the ground.
There were 1404 coins.


I know you were all thinking I couldn't solo but I do get by.

Alias[/quote:bzwhuef8]
bwahaha.. A terracotta soldier goes limp as Alias touches him..

[Blastem]

[quote:4x9o2x5b]Blastem[chat]> 'hehe[/quote:4x9o2x5b] and I reply hehe was quite funny
iirc that episode ended in a raise LOL

In all reality I run mostly 2 man with thieves and monks when I do play. I've got to say I've made as many xps running behind Nab as I have any thief. Monks have a ton of very useful skills if you play them correctly. Thieves are mainly based on first initial damage. As many know I used to run a small Ba/Mo who at lev 40 ... thats 1x40 took out a few avatars in the arena using skills that are NOT prime to either class. It took a few times before a few learned how to combat these techniques. Yes this char was handicapped by the recent AC rules (no warrior) but ya know I still like her. Every class has advantages yes even clerics and mage primes if you learn to use them correctly. I guess the main thing I have to say is look at what you have and use it don't sit back and complain that you can't solo X mob and someone else can, because I'll bet you there are mobs if you work at it that you can solo that they'd never think of.

Just my $.02
Paul

[Leaf]

1) I believe Prime Monks should do more damage on grips/touch/strikes
then non-primes. (Again if Primes do have more damage I don't know,
Nabby also stated he tested in arena and can't tell a difference)

2) When a grip is successful, the mob should have a greater chance of
-hit and or lose an attack. Currently now mobs still have a high thaco so
I still get a beat down (ac-4). This would also help out in groups as a
monk grip, the mob would have less chance to hit a tank. It's sad when
leaders would reather have a lvl40 prime thief stab then a Monk Avatar.

I'm able to solo with my monk and get about 15mil on a run. But would need
to regen or toss a heal after each grip (the round of lag is really bad).
Yes I understand death-touch is the $hit as Alias posted, he splorking a 5mil
mob. But from lvl 40 prime all the way to lvl32 avatar is a little hike for most.
Regarding some "skills", for Monks we got Counter, Focus for attacking mobs.
Grips does most damage on the first grip, and then most ppl "release" cause
the number of attacks they can get in the next round does more then the
second grip round. Using other skills/spells from other classes are great
but those skills/spells can be used with Thiefs or any other chars. (wraith)

Just look at Monk as a class by itself and its pretty handicap compare to
other classes. Warriors was one class that needed improvment, Monks be
NEXT!
(Regarding my exp runs, they usually are Pronghorns, Irap).