Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

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Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Teron » Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:45 pm

Example:

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 storm
TICK IN 10 SECONDS.
save
Saving Songster.
Saving items.

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 storm
The lightning has stopped.
Timer now at 60 secs.
save

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 raining
Saving Songster.
Saving items.

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 raining
TICK IN 10 SECONDS.
save
Saving Songster.
Saving items.

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 raining
TICK IN 10 SECONDS.
save
Saving Songster.
Saving items.

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 raining
Countess DeNuva utters the words, 'pzfwzhuq candussabruaiqz'

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 raining
Cc the muse tells you 'I've found Countess DeNuva at Northern Catwalk, sir!'
stand
play 'dance of the seven luck gods'
res
res

<1003hp 683ma 370mv> 2913919907 0 - -2.1 +10 raining
You stop resting, and stand up.

---------

There was no warning.
There was no global fast repop.

The same thing happens on mobs that are affected by global fast repop.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby *teker* » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:40 pm

I've noticed this as well. I jut checked the code and it looks like there's only a 10% chance that spirit watchers will send the "I sense your target is coming" message. That check gets run 6 times a minute for 3-4 minutes before the zone reset so you would think it's pretty likely you'd pass the check with that many opportunities. But it is possible that you would fail the check every time.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby *teker* » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:47 pm

I noticed something with the fast repop that needs fixed so I'm fixing that.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Teron » Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:09 am

So a quest spell only has a chance of working?
This isn't the first time I've encountered this.
This is the first time I'm sufficiently annoyed by this "feature".

If you are looking at this, please take a look at how the luck song prevents mobs from repopping.

Thanks.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby *teker* » Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:17 pm

Ok, I rewrote the algorithm so that a warning should always happen before repop - even when fast repop is on. You'll have to try it to see if it works better.

For your other issue - are you saying that sometimes the zone repops but the mob in the room doesn't if you're playing dance of the seven luck gods? Is there a mob in particular you've seen this with? I'll have to build a bard to see if I can reproduce it.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Teron » Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:05 am

Unfortunately, I forgot most the mobs that behaved like this.
I remember the zeridan leader and Iqzz, but I've just tested that the Lightning Extension doesn't repop with people in it.
I'm sure there was at least one mob like this, though. I guess I'll keep testing.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Teron » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:33 am

Watcher with fastrepop on the continent works.

Haven't tested luck gods yet.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Teron » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:16 am

A good number of areas are no repop, so luck gods don't work there.

Instead of debating, whether to make those areas repop with people, how about excluding the bard, who is singing the luck gods, from the people counter, so areas repop with him?

This would keep areas norepop as per design, and would make the bard useful in those areas.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Josiah » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:35 am

Excluding a bard singing luck gods from 'counting' as a player in the area would be a slick solution if it can be implemented.

If there is a concern that allowing an area to repop with a player inside might break some special quest zones... it can already be done either via Limbo or Linkdead status, so at least it won't make any new exploits.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Gorka » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:06 am

Why do regular areas (not quest areas) not repop with people in them anyway? Is there actually a reason that adds to gameplay? Is there actually a point?

The only "benefit" I can think of for this "feature" is that hunting or scanning aggro's could be cleared to kill bigger mobs without getting yourself slaughtered by a surprise re-pop.

It needs to be recognised that if the changes went in that you guys are suggesting bards would no longer be able to clear some areas safely... is that a decision you're actually happy with... would it only lead to other disadvantages for the bard class? I suspect you guys aren't thinking through the whole issue, you've only thought about the advantage of singing for pops. What do other bards think?

Be careful what you wish for...
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Teron » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:31 am

Gorka, re-read what I wrote.

Only bards singing the luck gods song would not count.
Ie:
- bard starts singing
- area repops
- bard checks the mob
- bard recalls or goes to a safe place within the area.

What is the problem here we don't see?
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Gorka » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:28 pm

Firstly, I read your post once... I don't need to read it again because I'm stupid.
Secondly, when you say "What is the problem here we don't see?" who is WE?

It's funny how when I state my opinion and it happens to cross yours, I'm instantly somehow inferior and I need to re-read something, and you insinuate that you speak for a majority... yet if I point out the flaws in the ways you try and compel the people around you to get what you want, it's dismissed as a personal attack.

Area's that don't repop with people in them is potentially a feature... it means a person does not have to kill all the aggro mobs in area a second time, when they are in there for a prolonged period, trying to kill something else.

Area's repopping while you are in them might suit you, but it could also effect all bards in another negative way. All I am pointing out is that the change you suggest also has a potential draw back, that needs to be considered.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Teron » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:07 pm

Please point out how exactly this change will negatively affect other bards.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Gorka » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:31 pm

Hypothetical scenario...

Say I was a bad ass Bard, wishing to cycle the mana gator (mage style)... First I need to kill all those crappy eels before I could take on the mana gator. If I was a bard, with the changes you supposed... the bard would probably not have enough time to kill the eels, regen and mage style the mana gator before the eels repopped. If the area remained - no repop with people inside, he could regen in the area, kill the eels and kill the mana gator at his leisure.

I don't think areas not repopping with people in them was meant to be a pain in the ass... It was actually designed to assist players trying to clear an area so aggro's would not repop on them unexpectedly. I'm merely pointing out the problem has two sides. It may well be the imms make a change, maybe they don't, maybe my point is not the same weight as being able to sing luck gods in all areas... But let us consider all things... not just the things that suit us.

I've been pondering how I can do something like this in DOT in regards to Vain. I don't want to have to kill the aggros in the hallway every repop before I get to Vain, but with your changes... a bard will no longer have that option, everything will repop on him. That is not always an advantage.
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Re: Spirit watchers don't warn about mob repops.

Postby Gorka » Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:32 pm

Teron wrote:how about excluding the bard, who is singing the luck gods, from the people counter, so areas repop with him?


Ok, I think I've made a mistake in my understanding of your position. The bard has to be actively singing Luck Gods not to count, not just be a bard... It's an AND condition. If you read your sentence again it can actually be taken to mean different things. You could be clarifying what a bard can do - sing luck gods, or specifically highlighting a specific bard if there were more than one - the bard who is singing luck gods (because you then mention people which is plural). I see now you probably meant the character is a bard AND it is singing luck gods... but the emphasis of the sentence is placed on "excluding the bard." Using comma's doesn't mean things are happening at the same time, it only implies relationship between the statements. The only reason I picked this up was because Josiah clarified your statement underneath, and the penny dropped you probably meant that both things were true simultaneously at the same time.

If the Bard has to be singing Luck Gods to be excluded from the count then you are right, it doesn't disadvantage bards in any situation. If bards were excluded simply because they were bards, then the situation I describe would be true.

It might be tricky to determine where this behavior is allowed or not. For example the vampire_slayer quest... just by looking at the room data, there may be no flag to say that this area is a special case where this behavior must be an exception to the new rules. How would the mud know that doing this on EU is ok, but the vampire_slayer quest zone is not ok. It would need a flag to determine when to toggle this new luck gods behavior. The basis for that flag might not exist in the pre existing data. I doubt the imms will accept Josiah's quip about the situation already being exploitable as a reason to turn a blind eye to introducing yet another exploit.
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