*Splork* wrote:I believe that players should have exploration to 100% before they would ever be able to use a feature like this. This belief directly counters your initial ideas regarding the feature because you stated it would make it easier for real newbies to find areas to play in. I've already countered this thought process in my last post because these types of players simply do not possess the knowledge to use the feature. Although, this isn't much different from features like advice and others which newbies just don't know about...
Splork, as I said, there needs to be an adequate amount of signs and help to guide newbies to the areas, which they can run to.
Also, to make fastruns available to newbies and not available to others we can:
- allow fastruns w/o exploration on Valk
- allow fastruns w/o exploration to 1-20lev areas on other continents (penguin tower, asylum, kobolds, jungle, quicklings, lycanthropia, sewers, kings bazaar, AH beach, gremlyns, etc)
- allow free fastruns to our most used temples: Nia, Splork, Ming, Alana, Enea
- require complete exploration for fastruns to other areas
- require exploration and a completion of an autoquest for a runto spot
Splork wrote:Why is it a good idea, new player or old, to allow players to automatically run to areas they have no previous knowledge of or the danger that possibly exists there? This would be a recipe for disaster. On that thought process:
Why should we be coding skills which protects the players using them? Should we go back to shadowwalk and make sure it cant go into water without waterbreathing? Should we add checks to backstab and make sure you can actually kill the mob before you stab it? Where does this thought process begin and end?
I don't understand. Do you want to keep the danger of running to areas or not?
I think I've written enough that it should be obvious my intention was to keep the danger level *the same* as it is now, when you walk. Given your previous posts, I'm assuming you want to keep the danger, which is what Teker can do. Running to a dangerous area is as dangerous to walking to a dangerous area.
Now, as long as the danger level of running is the same, I don't see a problem here. And I am not starting the process of making it safe, Teker made a comment in this regard. If the majority opinion - yours and mine and maybe others - in this case is for danger, not against it, then we don't stop ppl b4 chasms and waterbreath areas. Or you can apply this to players of 20 prime and under.
Also, if a player decides to go to an area, he can walk there or run there. Changing the means of transportation (a walk, a run, or a horse or even a unicorn) doesn't make an area any more or less dangerous.
I am a bit baffled that you are acting like it takes a minute to run anywhere on this game. My best guess is that the average aliased run takes less than 10-15 seconds real time. To me, saving time really isn't an argument here because you are really saving about 5-10 seconds at best, and that would be if we cut runs in half with this feature.
I've just measured a run to the Jungle of Sess'Inek. It took 27 seconds. A run to the Moors - a newbie area - is longer. A run to the Tower of Gr'vald is even longer. If it gets cut to 10 seconds, I'll be glad.
A run to On the Webbed Spiral Stair is 22 seconds with both runs, to the entrance and internally, stacked.
Yes, cutting the time from 20+ seconds to 8 seconds would be noticeable and useful for me. As I said, I am intending to add a whole bunch of aliases just to speed up my runs. For others, it should be a similar convenience, but I'm not sure they notice or argue about it now, but it'll be interesting to see their reaction afterwards.
To see why I want speed, find a website that takes 20 seconds to load. Then make it load in 8 seconds. Then in 1 second. Which one do you want to use and which one you'll abandon before reading?
It would have a huge impact on those players who don't know areas and runs but do we really want that?
This is related to the newbiness of ppl. If they know runs, they can kill more mobs and actually get moving.
Yes, that's precisely the point: to get ppl to the mobs instead of them walking like turtles to an area.
If we limit free fastruns to newbies, then it'll help only them, for the most part.
If you want the player to walk the run and, though, to be honest, it's a sort of an accomplishment to make an alias that takes you to On the Webbed Spiral Stairs w/o a bump in a wall, then earning a fastrun spot could require getting to the spot from recall in the minimal time, say, to be in top 50% of runners to the area:
- say, 20 ppl take a quest to get a spot for the area
- 20 ppl run to the area for speed
- 5 ppl make it under 25 seconds, 5 ppl make it in 25-30 seconds, 5 in 30-40, 5 in 40
- top 10 fastest ppl get the runto spot.
This way, we:
- ensure players get the spot only if they know the run
- add another mini-competition to the game
- limit the amount of spots used at any time.
However, if this tidbit does go in, there has to be a larger limit on total spots to run to. Also, given that this competition does require coding, it should be simpler to just limit the amount of spots. That being said, we can set a limit first, and add quests in iteration #3.
This is most likely because they are either lazy, don't know the areas, are afraid to die, or don't have the runs aliased. Why should we make it easier for these players? They aren not LEARNING anything by typing fastrun demonweb. They learn by actually running to the areas by themselves, or with guidance from other players, using the website maps to help them, etc. One of the biggest complaints I hear about players is that lowbies are brought up with a silver spoon in their mouth and don't even know the most common area runs. Is this going to help with this issue or make it even worse?
If people get used to fastruns and require exploration after valk to get to their areas, they'll be more likely to explore those areas. If we require running to an area under average time, then they'll need to learn the runs and make fast aliases.
If we limit fastruns to 100% exploration to non-newbie areas, in the worst case scenario, this won't change a thing in terms of ppl learning runs: most ppl won't do it and will continue to be w/o aliases or runs. However, if ppl do decide to use fastruns, we'll get ppl to explore the areas completely - this should be a win and an imm's book, imho.
I don't see a problem here other than boosting exploration %.
We all already knew this, its how we do it thats vital. Does anyone really want us adjusting the aggressive timers on all in-game mobs just to add this feature? I'm not sure how many of you remember the uproar when we changed aggressive timer to be random, per mob, every 10 seconds and not ALL mobs being aggressive every 10 seconds ( when we could time runs through aggressive areas without ever being hit ) Do we simply trigger a new set of aggressive protocols for mobs marked as running? Do we address the issue another way entirely...
This is a technical question to Teker, though I believe he had already written that this change can apply *only to those running*. If the change makes fastrunning more dangerous, than walking, then we'll either take it or argue about it and arrive at a solution that works. However I am led to believe the danger level should remain the same.
I actually like the idea of the skill ( for the most part ). I don't like the "2nd iteration" idea of it. It impedes on existing skills/features. It would have to be severely limited before we considered it and some suggestions have already been made regarding this.
I agree that the fastrun spot idea can be discussed and a limit put on it. Atm, there are several ways to do it:
- require 100% exploration, same as for the fastrun
- require an autoquest to complete
- limit total amount per player
- allow only the 50% faster runners to the area get the spot
- give top 3 players by monthly leadership 3 extra fastrun spots (or the inverse of their place: 1st place gets 5, 2nd gets 4, 3d gets 3, 4th gets 2, 5th gets 1)
- give every top leader by exp in the level bracket an extra fastrun spot for a month
This also has a huge effect on corpse retrievals and death in general. Plenty of times people die and people can't get to them because nobody knows the run well enough. Well hell, just type fastrun demonweb and save the person. Without proper implementation, a skill like this removes a ton of danger and excitement from the game... and I don't like that.
If a person died in an area outside the entrance room, fastrunning demonweb won't help: you have to find the room you are running to. Also, even if you die on the fastrun in DWeb, someone will have to use a run alias to save you, because stopping fastrun, if it is there, will be unreliably imprecise.
Also, even if you can use a fastrun to save a person outside Valk, you had explored the area already.
As for danger:
- we keep the danger level the same while running
- fastruns are available only to those with 100% exploration for an area
- fastruns for CRs only speed up the run by 3-10 seconds, because the person w/ the fastrun already has 100% exploration of an area
- fastrun doesn't run to the mob that killed or looted someone, you have to do it yourself.
Even if you do believe that fastrunning will somehow help CRs, getting back EQ easier is what would make the MUD more playable, in the same vein, but not scale, as adding bonus exp for 40's. In this regard, fastruns won't help, because they don't take the runner to the mob. They will help, because they will make ppl explore the areas, if they do this at all.