Damage Reduction

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Damage Reduction

Postby Teron » Sun Dec 27, 2015 3:53 pm

Hi there.

Sloth Immortals, what's the current state of the discussion on damage reduction? Help says it might get changed: how long do we need to wait and what are the options you are discussing?

How about we start discussing the options openly, so that we can arrive at an option that'll satisfy both the immortals and the mortals, which you can then implement without wasting much time on discussion and then risking upsetting mortals after coding?

Thank you.
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Re: Damage Reduction

Postby *Breeze* » Sun Dec 27, 2015 7:42 pm

thats a generic disclaimer... what would you suggest needs changed in reference to D.R. ?
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Re: Damage Reduction

Postby Teron » Sun Dec 27, 2015 9:40 pm

As far as I remember, right now, DR is -1 damage taken before sanc is applied.

I was hoping it was more % based, because, if DR is -1damage before sanc is applied, for a mob that hits 600damage w/o sanc - not unheard of - at 5 attacks that's -5 damage, which is 0.83% of 600.

At 10DR, which is a solid DR an 7x40+ avatar tank gets, that's -50 damage or 8.3% damage reduction.

Not that huge a difference for an almost a cap of damage reduction. I don't see it how it's worth spending drachma on -DR items that reduce damage by 0.8% or -1.66%, where as I can buy an item for roughly the same price that increases my damage by 5% from 19 to 20.

I am expecting to get my damage reduced by about 20-30% at a damage reduction cap at 9x40 and after I buy DR - my cap is 14, which gives me about 11.62% damage reduction, if my math is right.

Also, I don't know how DR compares to -0.1ac. Help says "The amount of damage absorbed depends
on the difficulty and how hard the monster a player is fighting" which doesn't really explain much. Is there smth that can be done to clarify these?

Thanks.
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Re: Damage Reduction

Postby Josiah » Mon Dec 28, 2015 7:06 pm

tl;dr Damage Reduction is good.

I'm impressed that Breeze is even responding to an argument based on 'balance' from someone who obviously has no idea what DR actually does. Whether the obscurity of game mechanics is wise is an argument for another time.

The most plausible theory for the current implementation of DR is that it offers an additional percentile layer of protection, equivalent and stacking with shield of faith (25%), sanctuary (50%), fluidity (7%), etc.

What would be the motivation to create a completely new system for DR when they already have a perfectly good system in place? To conclusively debunk the dungeons and dragons-style 'flat' damage reduction per hit argument, just go test yourself against a weak mob.

What this means:

For most tanks who hover around 8-12 DR, they are likely getting about the same benefit as an extra stacking greater fluidity.

When I'm tanking, many big mobs deal 300 damage to me a round. Without my 14 DR, they would be hitting me for 342. It is already well worth my while to upgrade my DR to 23 (my cap) to get that all the way down to 274.

As a rough guideline, if you believe that -1.0 AC is equal to a 10% miss chance, then 1 DR = .1 AC is a fairly safe estimate.

This estimate also holds up well when you look at eq and rune options which seem to weigh .1 AC and 1 DR equally.
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Re: Damage Reduction

Postby Teron » Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:01 pm

Hey, thanks for the response.

You are right I don't know how it works, because, If I knew exactly how it worked, I wouldn't need to ask for a clarification, would I?

Also, I have trusted my memory of someone testing it earlier. Guess I should've done it myself.

As for motivation for change, I remember the talks that DR was not as useful as other parameters and imms were going to discuss how to improve it, some day. Help damage reduction implies that very thing and I have not seen a similar disclaimer on any other help file, so I'm not sure it's "a generic disclaimer". This was the motivation behind my post, because if I invest my time/drachma into damage reduction, how do I know it's as useful as ac or whether it'll be changed to something else?

And yes, you saying that "1 dr is roughly equal to -0.1ac" doesn't explain to me how it works, though I do find it useful even for non-tanks.

Though your math does imply DR applies after the sanc, which is fine by me, so I'll leave it at that.

Thanks again for the post.
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