some new crackma eq would be nice

[Weasel]

[quote="Gimlet":1eoirqz1]i've said this before, and i'll say it again. I don't understand why someone deserves quest eq for simply dying. Are tanks the only people who die in a quest anyway? Do tanks get drachma for dying in xp groups or eq groups?[/quote:1eoirqz1]

Ok if you don't understand, I'll try to explain it for you - it's in part because of the cost of corpsing - 100+mil exp and the chance of much more via level loss is a significant cost that tanks risk paying so that the non-tanks don't. Pretty simple. Tanks are the first to die in a group. Others die after that because some botter at the end of the group is AFK so doesn't react in time with a CF stick, or else some winner can't figure out what a protect chain is.

Bringing in FB as an example of someone dieing a lot and not being rewarded is just nonsense - the style some players choose to mud (ie: death is a way of life for them) has no relation to tanks dieing in quest groups.

As far as triggers go, speaking for myself at least, it is not possible for any of my chars to tank properly if I am not at the helm 24/7 - I just don't have the triggers to do that - it would defeat the purpose of mudding in the first place, imho. If you want to bring up triggers and botting though, you are most certainly pointing in the wrong direction - ask any tank how many times they've died because of f...ing botters! When you die as tank when there's still a heap of mana in the group, or even worse when you then corpse out because every raiser in the group is AFK/botting, then having someone accuse tanks of sitting back and botting is just a friggin joke. I don't think anyone would even attempt to deny that the bulk of botting by far goes on further back in the protect chain.

Yes most tanks will tell people to sing for rescue as it's almost impossible to immediately spot by eye when groupies get dragged into direct fighting, even with concise etc, at least in a sizable group. Asking the stabber to sing for rescue after a stab is a bit silly though, particularly with stab lag being what it is.. unless their rescues failed - I usually spoam 3 x rescue just to be sure, but now and then a triple fail happens.. maybe that's what happened in the case you mention? Whatever, making the point of not being rewarded for scripts and triggers is definitely not a good arguement if you're trying to argue in favor of non-tanks - most tanks I'd imagine would find that amusing, really.

Anyway you're all forgetting the real important point - casters smell funny.

[Weasel]

[quote="Gimlet":154snubg]Do tanks get drachma for dying in xp groups or eq groups?
[/quote:154snubg]

LOL I almost missed that line. Just so you know, nobody gets drachma for dying in xp groups or eq groups, yet tanks still get killed first there as well! Thanks for mentioning it though - looks like another reason to reward tanks in quests to me.. hehe

[Kong]

Duh tanks die in quest groups?!?!?!?! NO WAI! and this whole time I thought I was doing something wrong! Thanks for clearing that up!

[Gimlet]

100+mil + couple levels for quest eq, anyone would make that trade anyday.

so does that mean if I ( a caster) dies/shocks/losses xp more than the tank, then the quest eq should go to me?

any mudder with half a brain cell can stand in front of a group and die, it doesn't take much skill.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be reward for being willing to risk their xp. But to say that every tank deserves a quest eq, that's stretching it a little bit.

I would have no qualms about rewarding them prob extra 20-50 drachma. But like i said, rewarding a piece of quest eq that is prob worth 600-1000 drachma range just because they tanked, that is BS.

When was teh last time u were in a quest? With quest mobs nowadays capable of taking out half the group in a round, it doesn't take much for people other than a tank to die.

[brady]

Weasel is a tank?

[Weasel]

[quote="brady":2yodpggy]Weasel is a tank?[/quote:2yodpggy]

Brady, it's a vicious lie I tell you!

[quote="Gimlet":2yodpggy]...any mudder with half a brain cell can stand in front of a group and die, it doesn't take much skill.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be reward for being willing to risk their xp. But to say that every tank deserves a quest eq, that's stretching it a little bit. I would have no qualms about rewarding them prob extra 20-50 drachma. But like i said, rewarding a piece of quest eq that is prob worth 600-1000 drachma range just because they tanked, that is BS.[/quote:2yodpggy]

Any mudder with quarter of a brain cell can stand a few spots behind a tank and spam 'heal tank', it doesn't take any skill... but still it appears to be a problem for some. bwahahaha.

And no, quest eq does not always go to the tank - leader yes, but tank does not always follow - ask around many of the tanks if you don't believe me. I played a cleric prime for a while and got bored sh*tless in groups just waiting for my turn to toss a few heals.. tanking is waaay more involved. You should try it some time, if you haven't already.

In my experience in quests, the leader usually gets first priority, and after that if there's someone who stands out for something like solving a lot of the riddles in a quest or finding the mobs etc, they often get the second shot at quest eq (if there's more than one piece, which is very rare), and then the tank after that - it depends on how the quest played out (and btw, yes, I was in the most recent main quest plus one of the minis, since you asked).

You do concede that tanks deserve some additional drachma for their job though Gimlet. Now if the leader gets a piece of quest eq and there's still one more piece available and no individual stood out for doing anything particularly special, then by your own admission tanks should be the next choice. That is often exactly what happens. I think you just shot yourself in the foot. DOH!


We're all kind of missing the point though - quests really should be valued for the quest itself rather than some piece of eq at the end - that's just a bonus.. but a damn nice one if you're lucky enough to get it.

[13]

Keith I considered putting a bit (npi) in about players competing vs. each other for the eq, but realized that wouldn't work. It would just be a bunch of crying like it is now, only about different stuff.

A small team, 2-4, usually being friends/clannies will know within themselves who is deserving among their tiny group and probably act accordingly. At very least there would only be 3 other people to random against instead of 30 cheating crying sacks of trash.

[Roadrunr]

[quote="Mosaix":zf8tz7tz]I dissapointed in your response roadrunner. Id think a seasoned player would be able to process thoughts and ideas better than you attempted to.

How fair is it that after 13 years of sloth 2 and sloth 3, its takes a generous immortal to finally grant my pathetic healo ass a token of appreciation and give me a piece of quest eq. Had the status quo been the order of the night, id have still not seen anything. I wasnt even allowed to random for the piece i wanted, at least weasel got that chance. The leader decided halfway through to change the rules, and award the best stuff to whomever he felt like, then went back to random again. Id most definately like my slice of the pie, there are players on this game that have whole pies of quest eq. Thats not acceptable.

Ive been in pleanty of quests where its leader, 1.tank, 2.tank, runner, 3.tank, runner and then maybe levels. And of course by the 2nd or 3rd award the good stuff is in fact gone.

All i was trying to say in this thread was the drachma robes that were caster related are just about right as those who dont lead or 1.tank see jack sh*t in most quests. 250dr is pretty fair considering all casters can really do is save up drachma to get good stuff in the shops.

Since now according to Roadnofunner tanks dont even get quest eq. Lets please work on why only leaders and 1.tanks get quest eq. It takes a group to win a quest, not a 2-man team. Award appropriately, and balance the field for the rest of those questing and purchasing drachma eq. Again capping players at 2-3 handed out items would make some sense. After that its time for another player to enjoy some quest eq.

Mosaix[/quote:zf8tz7tz]

ok, so it appears that we started about the same time, guess what, I've got exactly one piece ot quest eq and I got it with my caster. granted I dont get into many quests these days but I used to 1. or 2.tank pretty often in quest groups and never got the quest eq you claim that all tanks and leaders get.

I'll also add that if you've ever lead a quest (I've only lead one and that is plenty for me), you know that the job of leader is generally a huge PITA compared to merely paying attention to the tank's hp.

The problem I see with random is that the most useless member can end up with the best eq. Leader deciding the order can lead to clan or friend favoritism. Vote method goes the same. I dont have any problem with capping quest eq at 2-3 items per char.

I say do away with quest eq and give drachma instead.

As for the robes, maybe it could be handled by making the price different depending on your prime class...

I'm also disappointed with you resorting to making fun modifications to my name. Pretty lame when you're trying to make a valid point.

[Weasel]

Actually yeah Roadrunr, since it seems the drachma shop eq may well be getting a revamp, perhaps restricting quests to drachma only is not such a bad idea, and then awarding a few extra to leader, outstanding groupies and tank as most here seem to agree with. The quest eq that would normally be restricted to quests would instead be available via the drachma shop. That way those who earned it can use the drachma to buy the quest eq they want (and they will use it too, rather than being awarded a nice piece of quest eq that may end up vaulted)..

[Hades]

13 writes:

At very least there would only be 3 other people to random against instead of 30 cheating crying sacks of trash.

as the great Stan Lee says, 'Nuff said

[12345]

[quote="13":3i0gma18]Keith I considered putting a bit (npi) in about players competing vs. each other for the eq, but realized that wouldn't work. It would just be a bunch of crying like it is now, only about different stuff.[/quote:3i0gma18]

Well, I was trying to stay out of this conversation, but you honestly gave me a great idea Aaron. Well, I think its a great idea, it probably wouldn't work.

This is basically what it would come down to. There would only be say... 4 quest prizes at the end. The players interested in claiming one would have to bid on it. Each would offer up a piece of eq from their own stash, group votes on who has the best bid. Eq is traded and we move along to the next piece, the winner of the eq leaves the group. This continues ...

Instead of flat out awarding a quest piece, it would basically insure that everyone got an upgrade. If you didn't want to invest a piece of sufficient worth, you'd basicly have to settle for a lower prize.

Among other things, I think it would help get a lot of the higher eq sitting in vaults back into circulation.

And it would be almost a quest in itself to sort it out between 30 or more people.

[Hades]

NO no no no !!!

You still don't get it. Have you not learned anything?

[Akasha]

Yeah, I've re-learned/remembered why I havent run a quest in several years. See ya again in 2015

[brady]

yup, sounds about right.

[Hades]

Actually, the world ends in 2012 so we won't be seeing you in 2015.

word