by **Driven** » Wed May 06, 2020 6:00 pm

Let's talk concretely instead of throwing around conclusions... I may very well come to the same conclusion you have, but the damage #'s need to match the conclusion. As I just learned, spell_dam does not impact the damage on disintegrate at all--that is both unexpected and a little disappointing. The result is that the damage output of the Sphairai is impacted only by spell saves. To illustrate this,

* Razyr runs capped as mage third with -23 saves, 105 spelldam in groups, disint average damage is 275 in groups.

* Capped mage runs -31 saves in groups, 250+ spelldam in groups, disint average damage is 350 in groups.

* For someone who just wields the Sphairai with minimal spell_saves gear, the average will be closer to 200.

Now, the whole point of the Sphairai was to enable mage-types to do decent damage in groups when their mana was gone, thus narrowing the gap between the melee players and the casters in groups. I believe your conclusion was that non-mage-types are using Sphairai and are generally boosting damage #'s on the mud.

Base damage of Sphairai

* 2d6, disintegrate 1/6

* Running low spell saves (around -10), damage from disint should be around 200.

* Running mid spell saves (around -23), damage from disint should be around 275.

* Running high spells saves (-31), damage from distint should be around 350.

Monks

* Barehand: 9x40 rebirth (~60 handdam) : Average damage / round 80*6 (480) hits + 350 strike ==> 830 / round.

* Barehand: 9x40 non-rebirth (50 handdam): Average damage / round 70*6 (420 hits) + 270 strike ==> 690 / round.

* Barehand: 6x40 (35 handdam): Average damage / round 55*4 (220) hits + 200 strike ==> 420 / round.

* Sphairai: 9x40 rebirth: *might* get 50 damage/cleave ==> 50*5 + 275*5/6 ==> 479/round + 50 broadside (compared to 830 hits/strikes above).

* Sphairai: 9x40 non-rebirth: 38 damage/cleave ==> 38*5 + 275*5/6 ==> 419/round + 38 broadside (compared to 690 hits/strikes above)

* Sphairai: 6x40: 25 damage/cleave ==> 25*4 + 275*4/6 ==> 283/round + 25 broadside (compared to 420 hits/strikes above)

* Conclusion: Monks should never use sphairai, except on ether mobs.

Warriors

* Winterblade 6d4: 9x40 rebirth (~70 weapdam): Average damage / round 100*5 (500) slashes + (111 ice ray proc * 5/10) + 100 broadside ==> 650 damage / round

* Winterblade 6d4: 9x40 non-rebirth (~50 weapdam): Average damage / round 80*5 (400) slashes + (111 ice ray proc * 5/10) + 80 broadside ==> 530 damage / round

* Winterblade 6d4: Average damage / round w/Winterb@ 6x40 is (~35 weapdam) 65*4 (260) slashes + (111 ice ray proc * 5/10) + 65 broadside ==> 380 damage / round

* Sphairai: 9x40 rebirth (~60 weapdam w/-23 saves): Average damage / round 75*5 (375) cleaves + (275 disint * 5/6) + 75 broadside ==> 679 damage / round (compared to 650 damage / round above)

* Sphairai: 9x40 non-rebirth (50 weapdam w/-10 saves): Average damage / round 65*5 (325) cleaves + (200 disint *5/6) + 65 broadside ==> 556 damage / round (compared to 530 damage / round above)

* Sphairai: 9x40 non-rebirth (40 weapdam w/-23 saves): Average damage / round 55*5 (275) cleaves + (275 disint *5/6) + 55 broadside ==> 559 damage / round (compared to 530 damage / round above)

* Sphairai: 6x40 (35 weapdam w/-10 saves): Average damage / round 50*4 (200) cleaves + (200 disint *4/6) + 50 broadside ==> 416 damage / round (compared to 380 damage / round above)

* Conclusion: Sphairai gains some damage (~3-5%) for loss of AC *and* loss of ability to riposte (which is considerable damage).

* Conclusion: Highly situational -- a lot of drachma for minimal gains, except on ether mobs.

Thieves

* Serpentine 3d7: 9x40 rebirth (34 damage): Average damage / round: 52*5 (260) pierces + (250 avg proc *5/6) + 280 circle ==> 750 / round

* Serpentine 3d7: 9x40 w/o rebirth (30 damage): Average damage / round 48*5 (240) pierces + (250 avg proc *5/6) + 250 circle ==> 700 / round

* Assassin 3d6: 6x40 (15 damage): Average damage / round 25*4 (100) pierces + (170 avg proc *4/8) + 150 circle ==> 335 / round

* Sphairai: 9x40 rebirth -- why? no way you're getting higher than warrior @ 679 damage/round, and base gear is already 750

* Sphairai: 9x40 non-rebirth -- why? no way you're getting higher than warrior @ 560 damage / round, and base gear is around 700 / round

* Sphairai: 6x40: Maybe, as you might be able to get near 400 damage/round, which is higher than 335/round, but that's an awfully high price to pay for a short-term use.

* Conclusion: Even more situational than warrior, as it may only make sense against ether mobs.

Bards

* If a bard decided to play like a monk, you would see something similar to the monks above with the damage differential being slightly lower, but still coming out ahead w/hand damage.

* If a bard decided to play like a warrior, would probably see sphairai coming out slightly ahead, which I'm ok with.

* If a bard decided to play like a caster, you would see the sphairai coming out ahead, which I'm ok with.

Casters Primes

* All four caster classes do damage w/spells in groups, except for the occasional druid the shifts into chimaera or makara.

* Casters come out way ahead w/proc weapons than w/o, which is the whole point. In our typical groups, casters run out of casting mana about 20 minutes in and are running on regen mana from there out. A strong caster can eventually get to 50 cleave damage w/350 damage for mage prime, and 275 damage for non-prime.

** Mage prime: 50*5 + 350*5/6 + 150 damage from spells (conservative estimate based on 100 mana regen standing casting frostbolts as mana becomes available) ==> 691 damage / round

** Non-mage prime: 50*5 + 275*5/6 + 120 (conservative estimate based on 100 mana regen standing casting disints/winds as mana becomes available) ==> 600 damage / round

The reality is that monks, warriors, and thieves are still doing more damage over the long-haul, but mages can burst a lot harder and faster in the short-term. These #'s do not lead me to believe that the Sphairai is out of balance. Are any of my #'s above out of whack?