General post to all

[Teron]

JB, if gold sucked for 2man, gold will suck more for more people, mob total exp won't change. We weren't measuring exp/hr, obviously that'd be low for 2man, were assessing mob thickness/damage relative to total exp, and whether it's worth leading a group here.

We saw the gold at the level, which is ok gold for an exp mob. DWeb has even higher gold, which is nice.

If you leave it as it is, most Pagoda mobs aren't worth killing for exp. And obviously not for extra 50k gold in a group too.

If you want Pagoda to be an exp area, then exp in mid-level gods needs to be improved as well. However, it would mean that this is not a gold area, because it's hard to expect an area to be perfect in exp and great in gold, even though it'd make leveling easier.

[*Splork*]

We have 8 people on after a reboot for a total of nearly 750 million coins in the bank.

To an outsider, that sure doesn't look like we have a gold issue or need to be adding gold to the game.

[Teron]

The outsider isn't bored to death by doing the same unchallenging areas for the xxth time nor he cares for players' enjoyment. An outsider also doesn't understand that adding an area with the same gold/hr doesn't mean increasing gold/hr for players, because it simply adds variety and challenge.

Across 10 people online, there are about 4-5 trillions used exp on players.
We don't need any new exp in the game.

Earlier, you increased exp bonus, because players were leveling slowly.
The same levels cost gold, which players accumulate even slower, than exp.
Yet you hadn't decreased levels cost nor increased gold drops.

How is that so?

[*Splork*]

The game has two determining factors to level: experience and gold. For the most part, players have been gaining enough gold to level as they work towards that level. There will always be occasions when you might have enough gold to level but not experience or the other way around. I happen to think this is a good thing and not bad...

There was a major issue with experience and the rate players were gaining it at. That is why those changes were made. Gold is something which hasn't been that huge of an issue so far or if it has been, it hasn't really been talked about.

Gold was a huge issue issue for us in the previous version because there was simply too much of it. I would rather us be in this situation where we can make small increases and add to the game rather than trying to figure out a way to remove gold...

[Teron]

How do you know that gold wasn't an issue for players? I remember talks about gold areas, and a huge uproar, when Mansion of the Mourned gold was nerfed, as well as in other areas.

Did those players, who stopped playing, had same or more gold, than they needed to level their most expensive level? I bet it's possible to check that data now.

Since it's easier to get exp, than gold, I don't understand why players should *have* to spend hours upon hours killing unchallenging 100-3mil gold mobs.

[*Splork*]

There are always discussions about everything regarding the game. There is also always an outcry when an area is nerfed. However, that does not mean there is a global issue.

There have not been any, to my knowledge(forums posts which I read daily, email, personal tells, chats, etc), major complaints regarding gold as their had been regarding the issues surrounding experience. The total experience and rate at which it was being gained was abysmal and a mistake on our parts. We listened to our players and made adjustments which seemed to have pleased the majority.

I am not saying we will not add more gold to the game but I am saying we will be cautious, as we should be because we will not get ourselves in the situation we were in S3.

Isn't it great having me around daily Taron

I am starting to really enjoy my time here again!

[Teron]

To an outsider, that sure doesn't look like we have a gold issue or need to be adding gold to the game.

I am not saying we will not add more gold to the game

Ok

Since you know both the experience gain rate and the gold gain rate, can you run your stats and show us, what it currently is? Thanks.

Also, what about gold on players that left? Were they rich or poor?

[*juggleblood*]

The suggestion that I agreed with and was responding to, was the concept of an area that was nice group gold. To me 2 man is not group. A "group gold" area to me would be an area like pagoda of enlightenment where the xp is a little sub-optimal, but puts a decent little chunk of gold in the pockets of everyone in a good sized group. I'm not going to load up gold on a zone that is 2-man size and call it "group gold". I have a heck of a lot of experience adjusting mob values, and based on that experience I can say that pagoda of enlightenment is now on the upper end of gold values for large group mobs. For the idea to work, it needs to be on very thick mobs, because as Josiah pointed out, what is soloable varies wildly.

I'm not reacting to a belief that there's not enough gold ingame. I'm reacting to the idea that there could be a little more variety to the gold runs or the idea that a few group areas could have some nice coin in them to draw traffic there.

[Josiah]

Since you know both the experience gain rate and the gold gain rate, can you run your stats and show us, what it currently is? Thanks.

Teron, those numbers are freely available to you via the top 20 lists. Feel free to crunch the numbers and compare it to leveling costs on your own time. I'd rather the Imms be working on the game rather than your statistics homework.

Our Immorts react well to common problems, expressed by multiple players, over a sustained period of time.

Gold complaints seem to come from a few specific players, and on an infrequent basis. I would guess that those players might have a spending problem rather than an earning problem.

[Gorka]

I am not saying we will not add more gold to the game but I am saying we will be cautious, as we should be because we will not get ourselves in the situation we were in S3.

Splork, please give shop keepers (in towns) more gold. A shop keeper should at least have 1m on him at a reset. Auctioneers are fine, but it would appear most others only have about 500k. This is causing shortages of coins on days 1-3 after resets.

[*Splork*]

Valid point Jezer and it has been brought up in the past on numerous occasions. Honestly, I don't know much about this topic other than what I keep hearing and reading from you guys.

I will reach out to Teker and see what he thinks.

[Gorka]

Thanks Splork, specifically... Rhin on SS, supplier on BH, Red Moran on AH...

[Josiah]

If you decide to give more money to shopkeepers, I'd recommend doing it gradually rather than right at reboot.

Five minutes after reboot today, every auctioneer, supply shop, gem shop, and alchemist in the game were broke.

If they get a small hourly or larger daily allowance, that would be better than a big pot for whoever is lucky enough to be online right after a reboot.

[Gorka]

Understand your thinking Jos, but your idea treats a symptom, not the problem. We are still going to bomb the shops, all you are doing is implementing a lag on us with your idea. But if the shop keepers at least had a mill, we can bomb them... AND the newb can sell his invitation to castle black.

A serious solution would either, stop tokens being sold to suppliers or introduce a specific token dealer. JB's 1d100 * 1000 gold token eater was a good idea I thought, even though I doubt it will get implemented.

I'll remind teker about shops, but figure he's read what Splork said here, cause he's on the ball... Island shops could be re-vitalised I feel... not sure why island has just never worked in the shops department... might be the distance from recall. Maybe they need a McSloths or a Walsloth to attract more consumers.

[*juggleblood*]

Fixed. Supply shops will no longer buy tokens. They were never intended to honestly, I had added item type light a couple years back just on the chance that some newbie would sell a lamp or something. It wasn't so that you could fill up the shops with hexes. The other end of this problem is the excess of hexes from colibots. Will try to address that soon.