Suggested Solution for Drachma Eq Problem

[Gorka]

Drachma eq is a bit of a mess, although there are perfectly crafted and priced items players love, there are also a lot of items not being purchased because they are too expensive or worse than in game eq.

In the past there have been drachma eq overhauls, and normally an immortal has been assigned the unenviable task of completing this... unfortunately it turns out to be a massive amount of work, mistakes are often made and the immortal must survive the ensuing crap storm afterwards.

It's time to get collaborative! Here is my idea... I think for a time there should be a public submissions database on the website... these items should be able to be entered into a separate eq list. Suggestions can be submitted by players along with there reasons and thinking. Everyone can comment and rubbish the names, spelling, stats and ideas that everyone else has submitted. People can "like" which ideas are the best. At the end of a certain period, an immortal approves the best ideas and the items are entered. The eq list is first loaded with the current list of items, so all the mistakes can be pointed out.

After the items are created, there is an amnesty period where players can exchange their pieces at cost price... and the issue is solved. No one can whine, because everyone is responsible.

Tomorrow, peace in the middle east...

[Teron]

That's a good idea, though I don't see Breeze creating a form for eq items with comments from scratch.
Maybe if he can hack a custom content type himself in WordPress.

I could do it in Drupal, but I need to fix my own Drupal install first.

That being said, I already made a Google Spreadsheet with edit access via the link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

If someone starts to screw around, we'll have to use email access.

How it works:
- enter your eq idea and why you think it's a good item, how it fits in the current eq/classo thing
- if you want to comment, right-click on the contents of the "why" field, "Add comment" and do your thing
- if there is a comment to the item, just reply to it.

If possible, be logged in Google at the time of your edit, so we know who's who (I assume that's how it works, anyway).

[*Breeze*]

That's a good idea, though I don't see Breeze creating a form for eq items with comments from scratch.
Maybe if he can hack a custom content type himself in WordPress.

if you notice there are not very many places for user input into the website.
besides the eqlist search block, any other user input is via links using integers.

that was not an accident

---snip---

If possible, be logged in Google at the time of your edit, so we know who's who (I assume that's how it works, anyway).

if you expand it to all types of eq, then if an immortal needs an idea for a new piece of eq they can use your list.

[Teron]

if you expand it to all types of eq, then if an immortal needs an idea for a new piece of eq they can use your list.

Sure, why not.

I'd appreciate feedback from immortals for eq ideas, so we don't spend our time fine tuning an idea that won't get accepted.

Thanks.

[Gorka]

I've sent Taron an extracted list of all the current drachma eq items.

I urge all players to contribute, debate, and most of all be sensible...

I am going to update this thread from time to time, with some reports and facts about the current drachma sets to get you thinking, I have the stats in a database so I can run queries and feedback interesting facts to get you all thinking...

FACT 1... "There is no drachma eq with spell saves."

[Gorka]

Any chance an imm could release publicly all cap information?

It would be REALLY helpful.

[Teron]

Also, immorts could share the stats on how many of each drachma eq were bought over the years.
Apparently Gorka wants not only to suggest new ideas, but to fix the old ones.
Thanks.

[Gorka]

Things are progressing...

* I've extracted a list of drachma items from the eqlist.
* Breeze contributed to Taron a log of "transactions" from the drachma vendors.
* I've compiled all this information into a spreadsheet and sent to Taron for publishing.

You will be surprised... as it turns out, nearly every drachma item has been purchased, however in working with this data I don't have full confidence in it's accuracy... and it's completely possible some items may have been "test purchased" by immortals. Items have also changed over time, but kept there original name which means we don't know what exact revision of the item a person got. There are abnormalities and strange things in this data, but overall it's valuable in the sense of the objective.

FACT 2... "About 3500 Oct Tokens have been purchased" - proving that a large proportion of drachma is essentially "wasted" by frustrated players.

[Gorka]

FACT 3... "About 50% of drachma items account only for 10% of sales... (Tokens and potions excluded)"

[Gorka]

A few months ago I broke down all the drachma eq items into stats and drachma values. I then created an index using the min, max and avg prices of stats to produce a guideline of roughly how much stats are worth in drachma... I then had to interpret this data and came up with this...

500 Drachma: DAM, HANDDAM, MAX_DEX
400 Drachma: MANA_REGEN
250 Drachma: MAX_INT, MAX_CON, MAX_STR, MAX_WIS, REDUCE_DAM, UNDEAD_CONTROL, CHARISMA, WEAPON_DAM
200 Drachma: INT, CON, STR, DEX, WIS
125 Drachma: HP_REGEN
40 Drachma: SPELL_BONUS, HEAL_BONUS, MV_REGEN, STABDAM, CIRCLEDAM
30 Drachma: MANA, HP
15 Drachma: MOVE

This pricing is only a guideline, I say again... it is only a guideline, but it's roughly accurate to how the current drachma items are priced.

[Filk]

You forgot ac

[Teron]

What about ac value? around 500 too?
Though the ac robe and the -1.4 helm differ a lot.

[Gorka]

Yes, I left out AC for a reason. It's the most difficult and wildly varying index, because essentially most items are priced for there other stats, and the AC is not really factored into the value of the item by design, as it's often regular. (In fact AC is not considered an "AFFECT" in the eq structure, its a "VALUE" which means there is almost a separation of ideas here.) Of course there are a couple of items... the knights robe and the warrior helmet. But these are misleading and in the case of the helmet overpriced, but they do suggest that a net effect -0.1 on AC is priced in around 300-500 drachma per point. More closer to 500 than 300, to be fair to how MAX_DEX is priced.

I'd suggest that we don't calculate prices using an AC value, unless the item introduces a net effect of -0.1 better than in game eq, then I'd suggest it's priced at around 400 drachma+ (I'm taking the Knights Robe price and MAX_DEX as a middle position here.)

This creates a conflict with MAX_DEX which was priced in at 500 drachma... but of course there is not a single item with MAX_DEX that increases your AC by the full -0.5 because all the items have lower AC and the net effect is often only -0.1 higher than an existing in game eq item... A MAX_DEX clasp for instance is probably worth 2000-2500 drachma, but in most current items is only worth 300-500 because the net effect is only -0.1.

The other thing to note is the game has changed with goblets and blue potions. In my opinion AC and Mana Regen are no longer as valuable as they once were, this is not being reflected in some old drachma items.

Hope you understand my points... Overall I think AC is a incorrect way to price items... unless it's the best ac in game. Non consequential AC points probably have a value around 75-100 drachma according to my index in the cases where it's obvious the AC value is a major contributor to the items value.

For example...

a -2.4 body or less... I'd add 0 drachma for that. It's in game.
a -2.5 body... I'd add 100 drachma for that. It's in game but it's elite.
a -2.6 body... This ac replaces a 3x40 choice, that's extra value...
a -2.7 body... Well... that's an entirely different equation all together!

Remember this is only a guide...

[Gorka]

Here is some examples of how you could use my guide to suggest a drachma value for an item... lets say you had these in mind...

-0.5 WRIST with +1 WEAPON_DAM.
The highest ac wrist with damage is currently -0.2, the -0.5 does not exceed the max ac of wrist items in the game. So effectively the price of this item is 3 x -0.1 REGULAR AC CHARGE + WEAPON_DAM CHARGE.
(3 x 100) + (1 x 250) = 550 +/- Drachma.

-0.7 ARMS with +3 WEAPON_DAM.
The highest ac arms is currently -0.9. This basically makes the cost of the item 3 weapon dam charges...
(3 x 250) = 750 +/- Drachma

-0.5 ROBE with +2 MANA REGEN + 1 MAX_INT
The ac value of this robe is no extra value, only the 1 mana regen point is chargable on regular items and the MAX_INT...
(1 x 400) + (1 x 250) = 650 +/- Drachma

Adding HP's, MP's, MV's, +1 HIT, SPELL_SAVE can make a price that little bit more attractive if it seems high.

[Zlodiak]

Sooo hard
I tried to handle with AC.
While speaking of pure AC things are quite clear.
I created a formula for AC and tested it on robes.
For -0.6 robe i've got price of 405 drachmas.
For -0.7 robe 1280 drachmas.
For -0.8 robe 3125 drachmas.

For -0.5 robe it adds 80 drachmas.
For -0.4 robe it adds 5 drachmas.
For worse AC robes it should be substraction from price for AC penalty, but i'm not sure in numbers.

But, trying to handle other bonuses it become much more complex.
I tried to calculate price for -1.4 helm with my formula, considering price of 250 for max_stat and 100 for -saves.
Also, i was considering the difficulty of getting ingame eq (well, manually, hard to deal with it too).
So, best AC ingame helm is -1.3 +max_con -saves. Difficulty of getting it is quite low.
I got a price for -1.4 helm = 95 drachma.
It looks reasonable for me, because i won't trade my robert's hat to -1.4 even for 95 dr.
I calculated a price for -1.5 helm and got 970 drachmas.
Well, it looks... interesting. May be 970 is even too high price, not sure.
The problem is that ingame helm is too good.
I'd say this +max_con should be not +250 drachma, but multiply to AC price somehow.
There is huge difference between -1.2 +max_con and -1.3 +max_con or -1.2 +max_con and -1 +max_con.
The value of max_con changes high because of AC.
So, for -1.3 helm the value of max_con might be more than 250 and for worse items it could be less than 250.