drastic changes....

[Angels]

First of all I do agree a change is called for in succor, but seriously, 24 minute life of a scroll and 1 hour life of staff. It seriously seems to be a bit drastic. Wouldn't a better solution be to have them poof if dropped with a bit longer life, say 1 hour on recalls and 2 hours on staffs?

And secondly... why punish everyone for the behavior of a couple people?

[Tuck]

As brad like to say: welcome to the struggle.

[Acedia]

Lament! Lament!

Now how will sloth get by! Those 15 odd years before succor was introduced must have truly been terrible! However did people manage?

Woe to us: now sloth is sooooo much tougher! "Welcome to the struggle", those who have trouble walking. But then again, those who do are probably struggling in the most simplest of tasks already if this is really such a "drastic" issue for them. Seriously, what does this translate to. A trip to town, maybe 20k,30k gold a day if you're really attuned to dying a lot?

I'm sure the rest of us will be just fine.

Anyways, some suggestions for refinement:
- Not sure if the scrolls already do this, but perhaps add some indicator, like the scroll begins to fade/flicker once it has a minute left, akin to the spell down warning.
- Another possibility is to base the timer on total levels, and/or just extend the timer for a few real life hours, but make them poof on drop. Then, give them a weight of 1 or 2 (heavier for staves) so you can't carry a billion of them unless you really want to (well, you could since they're generated in inventory independent of carrying weight, but you wouldn't be able to carry anything else if you do. you'd have to drop something, probably the scrolls, in which case they'd just poof).
- Could also make them temporary so you can't rent with them, to reflect their transient nature (not sure if they do that now).

Acedia++

[Tuck]

Succor was abused, so one day it should be happened. Why you make such radically changes? You completely ruined succor spell. We will get mass bitching when staff will puff during chop run resulting in CF.

I suggest you to change succor spell so recalls/staves will void/puff if dropped on the ground. This will solve 'abuse' problem!

Thanks,
Tukster.

[Shyla]

there might be a lot of solutions for the abuse but for once wouldn't it be nice if people did NOT abuse the system in the first place so nothing would have to be done at all
what a novel concept
Shyla

[Toxis]

Tuk, Stryx was the one who said "Welcome to the struggle".
Thanks

[*Splork*]

Succor was not meant as a replacement for buying staves and recalls. We left this spell alone far too long. I find it highly ironic that one of the biggest abusers of the spell has the audacity to post a complaint inside of this thread, however it does not surprise me.

We are looking into other suggestions by players regarding this spell.

Splork

[Tuck]

We are looking into other suggestions by players regarding this spell.

Splork

Again, make recalls/staves permanent and puff/void on drop. Quick and easy solution.

Thanks in advance,
Tukster.

[Angels]

Acedia ..maybe you should think about my comment and perhaps log in to see my title. My complaint isn't as you would see it apparently. The comment to drastic is taking something that didn't disappear at all and change it to something that doesn't even last 24 hours. So from forever to barely lasting is not a drastic change? The changes made to succor will not affect if i buy recalls and staffs at all. Hence the reason my title requests the Imm's to remove it from my learned list. In the future don't be so negative towards the posters and be more productive to the thread. Had you actually interpreted what i said as i posted it. You should understand I agreed it needed changing. I didn't state that it was going to ruin the mud cause of the changes but voiced my opinion that I felt it was to drastic a change and provided a possible alternative or at least a direction the Imm's could look to improve the spell and not make it so drastic a change.

Also I appreciate hearing the Imm's are still thinking about the spell and the changes made, no matter what they do decide to do.

[Ezekiel]

Funny Tuk would post on this when I saw him succoring scrolls and staffs and auto dropping them at T&D, obviously afk. Over 100 scrolls, multiple, multiple staffs, etc.

Could the spell have used some revision? Sure...do i think this is drastic considering nothing likely would have happened if it hadn't been abused just for the sake of it by a few individuals...i do think it is drastic. There are enough useless spells in the game...just chalk up another one if you leave this spell that way.

[Nobody]

People sure have become so spoiled with a sense of false entitlement.

Since the nature of succor is that a character prays to their patron deity for relief, I would suggest treating them as holy equipment.

Near as I can remember, this means:
- limit 1 per customer (but does not count towards true holy equipment. Maybe limit 2 or 3 instead)
- rename them (already done it seems, not sure to what though. Perhaps something like "a Holy Recall Scroll of Splork..It has a soft glowing aura!" to reflect the holy nature)
- no time limit
- poof on drop (as per Acedia and Tuk's suggestions)
- poof on rent (as per Acedia's suggestion)
- non-transferable (refuses to leave inventory/cannot be given to mobs/other people)
- non-salable (already current behavior, if I'm not mistaken)

If a limit were to be imposed, perhaps an addition could be made, namely the choice of what you can succor for. For instance you can cast 'succor' scroll to get a scroll of recall, or cast 'succor' staff|stave for a staff, but at a higher mana cost (60-70, maybe not quite double). No parameter would default to scroll. And remove masterful castings.

Just some ideas.
Nobody in particular

[Ezekiel]

I don't think anyone in this thread said they felt entitled to anything...i was here when there was no succor...and i was fine then...i am just not a fan of nerfing useable spells to the point in which they become unused...i laude the fact that the imms are open to player suggestions for this and scoff at posts like Acedia/Nobody in which they choose to flame others posts and put words in the mouth of others, rather than taking posts for what they actually say.

[Angels]

Wouldn't a better solution be to have them poof if dropped with a bit longer life, say 1 hour on recalls and 2 hours on staffs?

i really enjoy the way people read.

[Acedia]

Angels, as Ezekiel has shown, you are correct in asserting that being negative towards posters is quite unproductive. For that, I apologize to you. At the time of my initial post, I was quite irked by both Jezer's generic 'anti-nerf/irrelevant tangent' post (which I see has since been deleted) and Tuk's prosaic response (which has since been revealed to be quite hypocritical), so I admittedly replied in haste and with largely unnecessary vitriol. Again, my apologies. I have nothing for nor against you.

I will also try to stop offering suggestions since apparently that is not "being productive to the thread". But as I'm only human, I'm sure I'll slip and accidentally speak my mind and present more suggestions in the future. Clearly what is called for is scoffing at others and a bit of brown nosing.

In regards to the topic, I for one, use succor primarily as sort of a 'create food' spell for recalls, since I tend to play low mana/poor mana regen characters and only use it if I forget to reload the backup scrolls in my robe/when I remember that I actually have the spell. Succor for me has always been a luxury to be indulged in when I have excessive mana to blow (i.e. rarely to never), so this change is quite minor to me.

This change could also very well, make succor useless to some, but it's still useful to others. Certain spells are perceived as useless, but are actually quite powerful and have specific uses for those creative enough to think outside the box. But sensationalism is easier.

I also agree that people are spoiled, expecting essentially free recall scrolls instead of having to shell out some coins. This is how I interpreted Tuk's "Welcome to the struggle" comment, as well as the whole "drastic"/dire nature implied in this thread, albeit with a heavy dose of sarcasm (which those who didn't actually read what I said, but decided to put words into my mouth, apparently failed to pick up on. There's some in here too! *wink*). Where is this perceived crisis, this "struggle", if not the fear of having something that you feel entitled to being taken from you? 95% of the time it's why people complain about nerfs, but this must be the exception.

Anyways, to the imms and rational people reading this, please give Angels, Tuck, Nobody's and my own suggestions some consideration. As much as I'd love to live in Shyla's ideal little happy-go-lucky world, I do not believe even the imms have the power to achieve that.

Scoff away!
Acedia++

[Ezekiel]

Actually Acedia, I said I'm glad you all posted suggestions and that the imms were hearing them. No one here, yet again, said it was unproductive to post suggestions...but rather to flame someone's complaint by twisting their words to an extremity. Once again though, you have twisted my words and implied that i find your suggestion to be 'unproductive to the thread.'