Runes - balanced?

[Thraxas]

Looking at the runes available while thereare a lot that are of general use to any class, of those that appear aimed at a specific classe there do seem to be more aimed at Thief/Warrior/Cleric classes than the others with only one aimed at necros, I just wondered if this was deliberate?

Stats - Good for All classes

Rhodochrosite +1 Max Dex torches and other held items
Tiger Eye +1 Max Int torches and other held items
Emerald +1 Max Wis torches and other held items
Malachite +1 Max Str torches and other held items
Obsidian +1 Max Con torches and other held items
azurite +1 Dex torches and other held items
banded agate +1 Str torches and other held items
blue quartz +1 Int torches and other held items
hematite +1 Wis torches and other held items
Lapus Lazuli +1 Con torches and other held items

AC Good for All Classes

Violet Garnet -0.1 AC body armor

Mana & HP for All Classes

Aquamarine +5 Mana cloaks and mantles
Brown-Red Spinel +5 Mana body armor
Pearl +5 Hitpoint shoes and boots
Coral +5 Hitpoint shields
Dark-Green Spinel +5 Hitpoint body armor

Saving Spell for All Classes

Chrysoprase -2 Saving Spell rings
Eye Agate -2 Saving Spell cloaks and mantles
Rock Crystal Quartz -1 Saving Spell shoes and boots

WA Runes - 6

Colorless Sapphire +2 Weapon Damage one-handed weapons
Amethyst +2 Weapon Damage vambraces, brassards, and phylacteries
Tomb Jade +2 Weapon Damage bracers, bracelets, and wrist-bands
Quartz +10 Kickdam shoes and boots
Orange Zircon +20 Flail Damage vambraces, brassards, and phylacteries
Pale Golden Pearl +20 Flail Damage bracers, bracelets, and wrist-bands

TH Runes - 5

Water Opal +15 Stab Damage one-handed weapons
White Opal +5 Stab Damage bracers, bracelets, and wrist-bands
Fire Opal +20 Circ Dam one-handed weapons
Amber Rune +20 Circ Dam vambraces, brassards, and phylacteries
Silvery Blue Pearl +20 Circ Dam bracers, bracelets, and wrist-bands

CL Runes - 4

Light Blue Iolite +4 Heal Bonus belts
Pink Diamond +4 Heal Bonus helmets, hats, and the like
Champagne Pearl +1 SysShock bracers, bracelets, and wrist-bands
Chrysoberyl +1 SysShock vambraces, brassards, and phylacteries

MO Runes - 3

Black Pearl +1 Hand Dam gloves and gauntlets
Golden-Yellow Topaz +1 Hand Dam bracers, bracelets, and wrist-bands
Alexandrite +1 Reduce Damage body armor

BA Runes - 2

Citrine +1 Charisma cloaks and mantles
Moss Agate +1 Charisma gloves and gauntlets

MA Runes - 2

Rose Quartz +4 Spell Bonus belts
Tourmaline +4 Spell Bonus necklaces, amulets, and gorgets

NE Runes - 1

Jasper +1 Undead Control cloaks and mantles

Limited or no use if no better rune available for a slot - Not specific to a class - 6

Brilliant Green Garnet -1 Saving Breath shoes and boots
Chalcedony -2 Saving Breath rings
Deep-Blue Spinel +5 HPR greaves and leggings
Bloodstone -3 Saving Poison rings
Carnelian -3 Saving Petri rings
Freshwater Pearl -3 Saving Para rings

[*Splork*]

Runes were set up by what special attributes are available. There are simply more available bonus effects for the original classes then there are the ones that were added a decade ago.

We have already discussed adding one more Undead Control rune and when we find an open rune we will. For the most part, I believe they are pretty well balanced with the effects we have to offer. With an eight class system, most of the runes are options for everybody, except for a very few. Runes that are labeled on this thread for warrior, such as kick dam are just as useful for non primes as they are primes. And most of the list is thought of this way.

As new effects are added for classes, you could probably expect a new rune to be associated with it.

Enjoy,
Splork

[Thraxas]

Agreed some of those I categorised can be used by more than one class, but the skewing to a couple of classes does seem to be real.
This is increased when looking not only at the available runes but also at how many can be worn, i.e. the availble slots:

• WA Runes - 6 gem types 5 slots
• TH Runes - 5 gem types 4 slots
• CL Runes - 4 gem types 5 slots
• MO Runes - 3 gem types 4 slots
• BA Runes - 2 gem types 2 slots
• MA Runes - 2 gem types 3 slots
• NE Runes - 1 gem type 1 slot
• DR ???

With the prospect of new Runes coming on line does this mean there may in the future be the possibility of runes for:

• resist fire
• resist frost
• sanctuary : )
• +control horde
• +dam
• reducing % lost concs
• extending attunement impact
• increasing shapeshift size
• +spellcraft
• +focus
• +%chance for masterful cast
• +% learned of skills (that cant be taught by teaching)
• +attacks

On another tangent I do wonder about the reluctance some of us feel to socket and use forged runes due to the inability to unsocket middle class runes from elite and hard to gain equipment when a better rune may come along and from socketing top class runes to high but not elite equipment when in the long term better equipment may come along. I guess this dilema may well be intentional but I'd suggest has led to more runes being vaulted than used.
Would it be better perhaps to give us some route to unsocket runes at appropriate cost? e.g. unsocket and it unforges the rune to 4 gems therefore costing 1 gem?

Thraxas

[Shyla]

i agree on the unsocketing. i think there should be some reasonable way to unsocet if you find a better rune or better eq. i have a few i can use now but dont want to risk it til i know what else i can use . can you please give us an unsocet rune option so i can make us of what i have til better eq or rune comes along and that way i can pass them down to newbies to use til they get something better... this way everyone gets benefit of runes and not just the elite.
please
shyla

[element]

I think socketing shouldn't be "reversible", but you should be able to destroy the socketed rune at a fee.

Also, I think high-end forges or elite eq should have 2 rune sockets (of course you can't socket 2 of the same runes) this would really help people in the long term....nobody wants to re-forge a piece of eq they took 6mths to make, because a better rune comes along

[Stab]

Very nice list Thraxas.

[Xamak]

For my 2cents I think there should be a process for removing runes. Otherwise, we end up with the system we have now. Everyone fights over the elite gems and the less valuable runes get made and dont get socketed. Of course, unless its 3x40 eq or a personal item you could re-run the eq, and sell the one you had with the rune. Depending on the piece of eq and the rune, that could be what I would do. To elements point, I dont see two rune sockets happening, and really that doesnt solve the problem at all anyway. People still would only want to socket 2 top notch runes to their item.

If given the option, I think Thraxas's idea (or some version there of ) works. ie a gem cost to break the rune down. Even from 5 gems to 3 would probably be acceptable from a cost / time standpoint in many cases.

Xamak/Elwyn

[Tuck]

Absolutely agree, let us unsocket gems please.
Even if it take some drachma scroll to unsocket it.

Thanks in advance,
tukster

[*Splork*]

As of right now, there are no plans to allow the unsocketing of runes from equipment. If we ever change our minds, it will require a hefty gold or drachma price, most likely.

Just about all runes are known at this point. A few more may eventually be added but for the most part, we are pretty close to set in this aspect of the game. Slothmud, unlike most other muds, has very little chance in ways of player's losing eq. About the only was is with a crash( which most of the time we correct now ) or by losing cps due to a forge explosion ( and most of these rates have been and are being drastically reduced). If a new rune happens to come ingame and is in a spot that is already taken, the player can spend a little more effort and repop that item or reforge it.

Eventually, there may be a way to remove runes from eq but there is not currently and will not be for quite some time until my mind changes on the subject. Runes are an extreme luxury and long term goal for players. These are dozens of items which simply increase a player's power simply by putting time into the game which you guys love to play.The only drawback currently is the fact they can not be removed and I am unwilling to remove that drawback right now.

Enjoy,
Splork

[Thraxas]

To Splork,

thanks for your response on the sbject of unsocketing runes. It would appear that the majority of the playerbase disagrees with you on this, not necessarily a bad thing and in itself dosent mean you're wrong, you have in the past been proved right a number of times when you've held your ground against public opinion.

Could I however as a favour, dosent need to be responded to or posted here, but count up the number of runes that have been forged, look to see how many have been socketed and compare to the number languishing in vaults/robes unused, consider why it is that this what should be hugely expansive and enriching aspect of the game is unused to this extent.

T

[*Splork*]

Rather or not you guys are using runes/gems or vaulting them is entirely up to you. It has no effect on my decision to make them removable and neither does the fact everyone disagrees with my decision on the matter. There is no right or wrong here, regardless of the implication that there is.

Personally I find it rather sad people would vault and not use items, just in case a better option becomes available. I fully knew people would not use runes right away, until most if not all, have been forged. Well, the majority of runes and stats are known now. There is very little reasoning, other than hoping new runes become available, to not using them at this point. The only rune I currently plan on adding is a UC rune for Necromancers and when I do, I will voluntarily remove runes in that slot for people if they choose to use the new rune. As I offered regarding the stats changes on weapon damage runes. This is not the ideal solution but until I feel more comfortable regarding the situation, this is how we are going to proceed.

I am more apt to make runes have to be used within a certain time period or they get lost, making them no vault, etc, then allowing them to be unsocketed. That is s how strongly I feel about the situation.

Runes are a luxury, simple as that.

As I have said, when and if they finally become unsocketable, it will be at a very hefty gold or drachma price.

Enjoy,
Splork

[jezer]

Is there an outcome on the silvery blue pearl rune yet, is it still hand dam?

[DSF]

Greetings Splork,

It has come to my observation that the pop rate on certain group of gems are much lower than other group of gems. Perhaps this is intentional but i would like to bring your attention over to Weapon Dam runes.

Currently, those known weapon dam runes available are as follows:
------------------------------
Amethyst +2 Weapon Damage vambraces, brassards, and phylacteries
Colorless Sapphire +2 Weapon Damage one-handed weapons
Tomb Jade +2 Weapon Damage bracers, bracelets, and wrist-bands
------------------------------


Based on my limited knowledge, the number of pple with Amethyst rune should be more than 2 and the amount of these gems popping is of the best pop rate among the three runes.

Tomb jade and Colorless Sapphire gems are really popping at a much lower rate that i know of. As such, with the recent round of adjustment of the weapon dam (which i agree is necessary to prevent overpowering) , would you kindly consider increasing the weapon dam for these rarer popping gems? A logical and personal thought would be to increase one of them to 3 and another ot 4 weapon dam perhaps. Given that Tomb Jade is at wrist which has 2 slots, i would think having 3 Wpn Dam May be overkill....but it's just a suggestion. Wholistically, having 3 or 4 wpn dam for Colorless Sapphire
rune would really make sense given the rarer pop rate on it.

For that matter, the rarer gem group like Black Onyx,etc could having some % increase in effects as compared to other groups as they are really rarer at pop rate.

Just my 2 cents suggestion and for your consideration.

Thanks for reading and regards.

DSFren

[Teron]

Splork, you said:
"There is very little reasoning, other than hoping new runes become available, to not using them at this point."

But Thraxas already said:
"I do wonder about the reluctance some of us feel to socket and use forged runes due to the inability to unsocket ... top class runes to high but not elite equipment when in the long term better equipment may come along."

This is a very, very valid concern in my opinion.

Let me give you a few examples.

- It took me 2 months of cycling to forge gleaming sabatons (without the Mercurial Woods key, which would take me a month or two, too). Should I have socketed a -saves rune there instead of a +5hp rune, I'd be in trouble. Also, if there's a better feet rune in the several unknowns or new ones left, I am in as much trouble.

- there are lionheart armplates listed in the eqlist, which makes it an ideal candidate for an Amethyst rune. Guess what, I don't know how to get those armplates, so it'll have to wait (it took me about a month or two to get the Amethyst rune).

- I can't use my Violet Garnet rune, because I don't have a cuirass or a shirt of mithril rings now (which is another forge in a nasty area, wouldn't expect less a month of cycling to get it). Using this rune on a diamond platemail is pretty much useless (makes it same ac as the two -2.5 forges shirts available).

- I also don't have Walls of Jericho at the moment, so a Coral rune will have to wait its turn, too. There's no alternative to the Walls to make a Coral rune socketed elsewhere to be worth much.

I can go on and on with Freshwater Pearls, Jaspers, etc. I believe that I'm not alone with these dilemmas.

There's also another reason to unsocket runes: if you suddenly forge a different rune in the same slot from random pops/group wheels. Though this does fit Thraxas's reason of "using middle class runes on high end eq".

There's yet another reason: using middle class runes on middle class eq.

Should we be able to unsocket runes, we'd be able to:
- socket available low value runes in high, but not high-end eq
- socket available low value runes in high-end eq
- socket high value runes in high, but not high-end eq

[*Splork*]

When I developed and coded this feature, I fully knew all of this. I am not budging on my stance regarding runes. People can continue to post the same reasons over and over but my decision was and has been made.

Runes are an extreme bonus to players. They force tough decision making and if something better comes a long, it forces you to reforge or repop the items in question. Obviously this is how I want it to be.

About the only thing I am considering, at this point, is something regarding triple 40 or quest equipment.

Splork