Avatar Damage

[jezer]

At what avatar level do you get the second dam point? (Suspect Current Avatar Guide is wrong)

[*Breeze*]

splork updated avatar guide awhile back so it should be correct

[jezer]

It can't be hey. Splork announced that he had decided to increase avatar dam and hit by 1 making it seven. The guide says 6/6.

I'll track down his post. But certain that can't be right.

[jezer]

Found it!

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=3322

Please update guide.

[jezer]

I’ve asked several times now about updating the avatar guide and got no response. So instead of asking the 5th or 6th time the same, I thought I might put a bit of body with my argument.

So Stats... With the new system, using tri’s as back up rolls... and with the extension of the “length” of the game, combined with the cancellation of the 18/100 percentile strength system along with the introduction of max stats, the scene is set for players to safely roll bunches of hexes for eternity and potentially aim for a higher total than was acceptable in s3. In s3, I got stats when I rolled 81+, but in this game, given the extra time invested into Jezer and the changing of the reroll system and the max stat system - ideally I think long term players should be aiming for 83+

Or should they? You see there is still indecision about the path of avatar – and in my opinion it’s starting to effect players in a negative way. As long as we remain uncertain about spells such as Vigor and the price of buying stats or spells at avatar how can one know where he stands in regards to needing to reroll his stats?

Zuzu informs me vitality is standard +con, so you can assume the rest of the avatar spells are also plus standard stats. No one knows yet how much strength Vigor gives, although I seriously doubt +5. Although maybe it is currently +5 and they will change it 2 days after the first person gets it! Eventually Zuzu or Cizin will tell everyone as they are only a few avatar levels away, so what is the point in delaying this information? Max_Stat is “downgraded” to a standard stat if 18 is not reached.

There is uncertainty about runes, Tuk seems to be doing the job of the eq list. This is silly... most of us refer to his list, and it’s kept fairly well updated, why not just show them on the eq list like the other stuff? Seems a no brainer.

If the posts on the crier are correct the hit and dam on the avatar guide are no longer correct. We have no idea what we can buy at avatar. Now if Splork decides set token prices higher (and even the most optimistic of long term players probably has a knot in there stomach about that thought, given avatar 40 being something like 18 BILLION XP!!!) some of us will think, I’m better off rolling higher stats... but if a nice immortal who isn’t out of touch with the game sets a realistic/fair price, one may decide to buy stats instead.

Can we buy max_stats at avatar? How much will they be compared to regular stats... they should possibly be worth more, sounds fair to me. Is it intended that avatar can buy their way to max_stat caps? I think they should, if they have invested YEARS into getting that far, seems fair to me. What else is available to avatars? Stab Dam? Hand Dam? Weapon Dam? Some things are not very comparable with each other and prices should be thought out carefully. If you remember back to s3 I wrote a post proving that buying mana with tokens was more effective than buying heal bonus and this resulted in the prices being changed.

Avatar lights, will they be able to have Max_Stats, how is it all going to work?

Sure, we are still on the door step of getting to some of these points, but surely you can see that this indecision is having a onetime temporary negative effect on current players until these things are decided and announced. All it takes is one immortal, and I have faith in most, to put forward an idea, and get the others to agree and its problem solved. Please?

If I get some time and thoughts together, and this post gets no worthy reply, I will start putting forward my own ideas about tokens and costings and post them in this thread, what I think is fair... Although I would have put a lot of thought into it... understand the main reason why I would do this, is just to promote thought and have something to go on as a reference – not to be taken as the gospel. I’m targeting the indecision primarily, not so much the details at this point. There is a saying “Without vision, the people perish.” The challenge for immortals is to give us long term players a vision of the future to keep us rolling along. And I must say I applaud the fixes to monk, and the change to avatar leveling, sloth has actually picked up a bit the last two months for long termers. Thank you.

[jezer]

Ok, typical Jezer, says he will do something later, but ends up doing it now to get it out of the way.

Attached to this post is a spreadsheet document which seeks to make sure in s4, the costs on the avatar menu are more "equivalent" with each other than in the previous versions of sloth.

To achieve this, the avatar menu was broken down in to three different comparable token costs, represented as X, Y and Z. I have not suggested a cost for these tokens, as I did not want to start a "small mans argument" about token costs when I really wanted to get my point across about fair and equivalent values (Call it communist tokens!). In the old sloth 5 mana cost the same as 5 moves. This was silly, as 4 x 5 mana is the equivalent of 50 moves. Clearly no one had tried to calculate the true cost of Spell Bonus and Heal Bonus and make sure the costs were anything close to being equivalent to the other things you could buy.

Now in order to achieve this task I had to invent a pseudo "Battle Scenario" and use some rough numbers from that scenario to break things down into how beneficial they are... The numbers work to the scenario in some cases... so if the scenario changes some of the values will to. Here is the results. It's not perfect, but it's approximate.

Open the attached link. Hopefully this will get the ball rolling.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AjnSG5lLGQ5cdEJvbjdVTjk5aUY0S01BV2hyeG9tc0E&hl=en&authkey=CMuNlYsH

To Summarise the findings...

X = The cost of 5 Circle/Kick/Flail/Spell dam.
X/4 = 5 Stab Dam
2X = 1 Hand Dam or Weapon Dam
2X+ = 1 Dam

Y = The cost of 1 Mana Regen
Y = The cost of 4 HP Regen
Y = The cost of 3 MV Regen

Z = The cost of 5 Mana
Z = The cost of 20 HP
Z = The cost of 12 MV
4Z = 5 Heal Bonus
2Z = 1 Dam Reduct

Stat Point cost > Y
Max Stat Point cost > Stat Point Cost
Perm Spells are roughly Spell Duration and Mana Cost then Refer to Mana Regen Costings. (Add Extra Cost base, on Spells Being Infinite Duration)

[Tuck]

[Dragoth]

Nice work Jezer, too bad it will most likely be in vain. But as long as you enjoy coming up with what you come up with it shouldn't matter and i hope you do.

Remember, if you dont like something, the easiest way to go about it is to either change your own attitude towards it or to stop doing what it is you dont like. I'm pretty sure there are plenty other things that you will enjoy straight out of the box. Finding something you dont like and then trying to change it to suit your needs is an awfully hard task, unless of course the crusade is what you enjoy most of all and dont get bummed out by disappointments much.

[*Splork*]

We have discussed runes being shown online and on the crier several times. We are working on it.

We have also mentioned online that Vigor would be 1 Strength, like the rest of the + stat spells.

As for the Avatar shop, we have absolutely no clue what will and wont be purchasable. Safe to assume most, if not all, of what was mentioned would be. As for prices, again, it has been given very little thought.

There will be avatar lights. What will be available on them is up for discussion at a more pertinent date.

If players want to banter about ideas feel free. We will not be making final decisions on any of these matters until Cizin is much closer to Avatar 40.

None of us believe this information( or lack thereof ) is effecting the way our players play the game but we will make efforts to come to decisions regarding them when we feel it is appropriate. When we do, they will be announced and posted.

Enjoy,
Splork