Zuzu's group tonight

[Spuffy]

I'm starting this topic so that others who grouped tonight can articulate what was not-right with our mudding experience
This immediate post is more of a brainstorm session/list of observations so if it sucks as prose, whatever.
I don't do so well leading with slender resources, so we had a lot of deaths. The front line broke with an awfully high frequency like every other round or so.

We didn't have Baby/Sirrico with us and that was a huge damper on our front line. Not just good tanks, but good support front-line people that are 80% the size of a tank, are still kinda rare. Kron is always afk off somewhere other than BH when I try to get a tank for groups for week-night BH exp. At any rate, he wasn't logged in this evening.

Strider's AWOL.
Godmode's AWOL.
Rigwarl's only on when people are asleep in the US, except on weekends.
And we still haven't gotten Marukai's AC gear filled out.
With 8-classes fewer people play alts, therefore fewer people have a second char who "happens to be a tank."
Thankfully some small people coming up are fearless and willing to put up with the struggle we are going thru (Bilbo being a prime spirited example).
To anyone that bitches during 5-tick regens that I dont move the group fast enough, I have this to say: we don't have the luxury for that sort of impatience right now. We are clinging to each other cause each other's what we've got. We need to get our asses in gear and pool our resources any chance we get or this is a dying mud.

There, it's now staring you in the face. Any questions?
Thank you for your attention.
--Zuzu

[Spuffy]

I would like to add in Destruction's defense that he is
1) better AC than Marukai currently by 0.2 (-7.7)
2) was sick with a head-cold tonight
3) didn't have his rescue scripts entirely worked out.
I've suggested that he discuss scripting with Marukai/Toxis to shore up the gaps in his Wintin stuff.


We also had a fairly strong set of heals tonight
1)Zuzu
2)Wingnut
3)Doc, for most of the length of the group.

Now, this should have been enough at first glance to sustain a group in the old days before frontline and backline existed.
But now that it breaks all the time....

[Mosaix]

Lack of front line hurts a little. Just not enough players to put on front line .

Myself included, we are all going through rebuilding and avatar/power withdraw. Things are not the way the used to be, things are going to be difficult for a bit.

So last nights group didnt go so hot at times. I am still glad I logged in, I died and still had fun, got a few levels to make it harder for me to die the next time.

When the leader screwed up he admitted to it and apologized. The tank acknowledged he was working on his script to fix rescues. Im glad we even had one tank to begin exp group with.

Anyway its all good, struggle a little, and build up our chars again.

[Thraxas]

I didn't join zuzus group tonight, the last 3 times I've joined a group he's led the xp happens at about 1/3 the rate of other leaders with the same group even with the best tanks and a good front row.
This is entirely because he gets sidetracked into hitting a low xp mobs to try and pop eq for himself or someone he happens to be friendly with despite the group being an xp group.
I haven't bitched about this in group, I've just during a regen upped and left and explained the above only in tells to zuzu and only when he asked why.

So tonight I asked on gossip how the group was going and got the most patronising and insulting tells from zuzu telling me he would deign to let me join provided I didn't bitch and threatened to recall me if I did, then he promptly went to sleep without letting me respond. Actually I was quite happy soloing and afking, didn't want to join.

The stupid thing is that despite being a bad leader now he dosen't need that much to become a good leader ... however the thing he needs most of all is to stop alienating other players, the only thing this thread can achieve is to alienate more players ... interesting play there.

[Medios]

[quote="Thraxas":29pnrx1w]I didn't join zuzus group tonight, the last 3 times I've joined a group he's led the xp happens at about 1/3 the rate of other leaders with the same group even with the best tanks and a good front row.
This is entirely because he gets sidetracked into hitting a low xp mobs to try and pop eq for himself or someone he happens to be friendly with despite the group being an xp group.
I haven't bitched about this in group, I've just during a regen upped and left and explained the above only in tells to zuzu and only when he asked why.

So tonight I asked on gossip how the group was going and got the most patronising and insulting tells from zuzu telling me he would deign to let me join provided I didn't bitch and threatened to recall me if I did, then he promptly went to sleep without letting me respond. Actually I was quite happy soloing and afking, didn't want to join.

The stupid thing is that despite being a bad leader now he dosen't need that much to become a good leader ... however the thing he needs most of all is to stop alienating other players, the only thing this thread can achieve is to alienate more players ... interesting play there.[/quote:29pnrx1w]

Umm I thought you knew. If you bring this fact up or even mention that they are running eq for Brad and Zuzu then you get cussed at and kicked out of the group. I have mentioned this exact thing several times. They don't run xp groups they run eq for each other and don't even ask for a small mob near town, no time for that. I used to try and help with gods of war( I figure it gives +200dmg per round) or reign of confusion to stop cfs but they would rather alienate me than get my help. I've had several people ask me why I am not joining and I dont have any qualms about telling them. If your running xp, then run xp and don't lie and say your regens are 5min when they are 10-15 at best. If your running eq then say it and maybe let someone else get a call.

I've heard it all lately. I don't have anything personal against Zuzu, but I sure don't have time to worry about "helping" people who treat me like I'm a washrag. Don't bitch when your groups suck. The leader is responsible in the end.

[Toxis]

I think you're being a bit harsh on a guy who's made some very valid points. The majority of the problem isn't the players, it's the way sloth works.

Broc said, "Myself included, we are all going through rebuilding and avatar/power withdraw. Things are not the way the used to be, things are going to be difficult for a bit."

I thought the same thing at first, but now that's just wrong. Why should people have to wait to avatar levels to enjoy sloth, or to even have a working group. Marukai and Flicka were two man in hellwell and the mob was disengaging every single round. Flicka couldn't cast anything, and I just stood there getting beat up while rescuing flicka over and over. That wasn't fun. Even on average mobs, the mobs disengage all the time and rescue lag is just retardedly long.

When I lead groups, if the group isn't 50/50 front/back, it breaks a lot and it's spammy and only the newbs without actions really get hurt. If the mob disengages 3 different people in 3 rounds, that's normally 40% of the group, normally high level healers and blasters from what I see, that can't do anything because of the rescue lag.

There's so much I could say with things that need changed, but all I want to say is suggest ideas to make the mud better instead of beating up on the guy who's merely pointing out some flaws to the new designs on Sloth.

-Tox

[Tap]

<--- Would have made it a better group just by being there


/comf

[*Splork*]

Yeah, we all know Toxis, "if you were running things and knew how to code... bleah bleah bleah the game would be so much better and everyone would have so much more power and and and"...

All I can say is Im sorry, we are trying the hardest to make it the most fun and balanced game that we can.


I wholeheartedly agree with Mosaix. People are and have been going through avatar withdraws. The newer players are enjoying the game for what is is, fun for the most part. If the only time a person can enjoy the game is at avatar, then Im sorry, this is the wrong game for you.


The grouping mechanics are incredibly much better than in S3. There are so many fewer cfs and the leveling speaks for itself. It has slowed down quite a bit but thats to be expected. We probably do have to find a better balance between front and back rows but overall I think we made leaps and bounds over s3 in this aspect of our game.

If mobs are disengaging too much I need to hear about it, they are all configurable and based on species. I find this incredibly hard to believe in larger groups since its simply an action with your client which is why I added a few different ones awhile back. It very well may be very hard on two manning and I can see if I can do something about that.

The numbers have dropped since the restart and that was to be expected. The summer is here and the numbers will continue to drop, as they do every summer at this time. Our numbers are still quite a bit better than the last yr of s3 and Im sure we will end up balancing out at about even which is great, I think. Hopefully we can continue to keep the newer players and the older ones who came back and watch our numbers grow again.

Enjoy,
Splork


We listen to suggestions and take them quite seriously. I think we have been adding back to the game since its inception and we will continue to do so.

[Toxis]

add 20 marg to NC prime, add 15 marg CA prime
areas should repop in no more than 30 minutes
all forges have 0% blowup
return restoration to all, add lvl 38 cl prime spell 55 mana +15hp heal over restoration
cl prime exorcism, does between disint and firewind to undead
mo prime, 10% stuns mobs for 2 rounds with deathgrip
code way to remove all levels from a class so you can redo classo
cut assist lag in half, make rescue lag only 1 round, web lag only 1 round
cut lost conc in half
add 1 round of lag when groups chaos
cut front row needed to 1/3 or less, not 1/2
wa prime heroic stance- protects entire group for 2-5 ticks, can be done by any warrior in the group

-Tox

[Toxis]

Doc -- 'well um if tanks get 20mr then casters should get 20damage'

It's a wonder people play games like this when people are just stupid to each other all the time. How can you compare 20 marg to 20 damage? 20 marg is a disint or a cure critic. That comment made me so freaking mad.

-Tox

[Vixn]

Disint does 120 damage per round and 20 damage will give you just 60 damage per round if you have 3 attacks and can land all of em (it's hard for casters now). I personally think 20 ma regen is huge bonus (and was huge bonus even in s3).

Kida

[Vixn]

[quote="Toxis":2gx0qaul]
...
areas should repop in no more than 30 minutes
all forges have 0% blowup
...
cl prime exorcism, does between disint and firewind to undead
mo prime, 10% stuns mobs for 2 rounds with deathgrip
...
cut assist lag in half, make rescue lag only 1 round, web lag only 1 round
...
wa prime heroic stance- protects entire group for 2-5 ticks, can be done by any warrior in the group

-Tox[/quote:2gx0qaul]

I think those (above mentioned) are very good ideas.

Kida

[Mosaix]

Just to follow up, I am enjoying sloth right now, and will continue to enjoy sloth in whatever form it provides. Being harder now, provides me with fun and challenge. When I am a bloated avatar again down the road I will enjoy it then as well.

Some are getting totally offended each time something does not go quite right. Make the note of the problem, pitch your case, and from what I keep reading from the posting immorts it will be reviewed and fixed if needed. Thats all that needs to be done or said to fix things. I cant imagine Splork logs on and thinks of ways to ruin gameplay for people. The impression I get is quite the opposite.

If you feel wronged, or do not like a feature on sloth, make it your own issue to speak with those who can fix it more to your liking. Negotiate, and state your case.

Disruption and loss conc got on my nerves. It seems better now, thats great.

With the disengage of mobs, i think it should be somewhere in the middle. It should not disengage every round, nor should the mob just stand there and only hit the tank. Somewhere in the middle is a good challenge for gameplay.

Have fun, play hard.

[Jag]

Well said!

[Toxis]

Vixn I think you forgot that 20 marg is per minute, and 20 damage is per round (which is not per minute)

-Tox