Unions-- Love them or hate them?

[Tap]

I've been checking several sites on pro's and con's on unions. I'd like how some,if any, feels towards being unionized etc etc...

My own thoughts at this time lean me away from being unionized. However, it seems that if I choose not to join the union should it be formed at my workplace, then I won't have a job since the new rules will only allow union members to be employed there.


Thoughts and personal testimonies appreciated.

[Weasel]

Unions can be very good for protecting workers rights and addressing valid grievances, but problems arise when they become too powerful and start to work for their own self-interest, and end up dictating how a company does business - that's where I don't like them, as they can end up defeating their own original purpose.

[alias]

As with anything there are pros and cons, I have been on both sides of the line, Mgmt, Steward, now neither.

Pros: usually higher wages and some protections from erroneous firings, generally better benefits. Everyone is supposed to be treated equal w/ no favoritism.


Cons: some employers agree to things in a contract that only do harm, like demarcation of work, ie only an electrician can change a light bulb, ect. The Employer has to bargain to get an agreement for a specific amount of time then has to do it all over again when the agreement comes close to being ended by time.

Seniority is both a pro and con. You get job bids, laid off ect due to the amount of time you have in that classification or department and thus is good if you have a substantial amount of time, but also people more skilled , and hard working can be laid off before those who do not necessarily have the best work ethic.

I would not make my decision on whether to work at a company solely based on if they were union or not, its just another factor in the decision making process. I would put along the line of do I get 1/2 hour for lunch or 1 hour for lunch, not really a game killer either way.

Compare the pay/benefits and if you enjoy the job dont let it sway you either way.


The unions are one of the sole reasons we dont have 9 yr olds working in factories and there are things called overtime, and holidays. They definitely had their place but these days their power is on a very short leash w/ permanent replacement workers being able to replace any person during a strike.

If you have any specific questions feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer, I only had 10yrs in the union but I did learn a lot.

[Weasel]

Oh, and as far as I'm aware, unionism is still voluntary, so you cannot be fired for not joining - an employer would generally offer you an individual contract mirroring the collective contract, depending on the position of course.

[alias]

There is a closed shop clause many contracts have, meaning if you want to work you will at least pay some amount of dues. Its better in the long run if your in a union shop just to pay your due and smile rather than try to get out of it. In the UAW the dues are 2 hours pay per month. so if you made $20 an hour your dues for the month would be $40.

[Mosaix]

I play in several symphony orchestras. Some of them are union. In the non-union orchestra the wages are poor, and the performance quality is not very good. Mostly filled with local lame-duck players and lower quality players who will accept the lower wage. If you accept work with a non-union orchestra you are "on your own". In other words if you do all the work for a week, and they just dont feel like paying you. Well thats about that. Not much you can do. This rarely happens, but it does sometimes and you just dont play there again. Also in non-union orchestras it is impossible to voice an opinon, make a comment or get anywhere with an orchestra front office or an orchestra board. Most times boards are run by a bunch of lawyers who are there having not much musical knowledge at all. They donate their time and take the tax write-off.

Union orchestras have higher per-service or salary. The exception is Seattle and Tampa Symphonies who are salaried, run well, and have good players but are not union. Union orchestras have the better players, sound more impressive, bigger audiences, better run etc etc.
If you have a problem you talk to an appointed/elected union steward for the orchestra. That indiviual has some power and talks to the union. If the problem is big enough the union normally corrects the issue and resolves the dispute properly. The union has lawyers to help the players deal properly with the lawyers of an orchestra board. Keeps it even basically, so problems can get resolved.

So in general I like Unions for Musicians. It helps to keep a proper check and balance between powers, gives musicians a voice, and raises wages in a way that is good for the musicians, and still keeps the health of the orchestra. I should add that most orchestras are non-profit. So from a buisiness standpoint its in the orchestras best interest to be the best it can be from both a player and a management standpoint in most cases.

[jezer]

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[Yasik2]

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