Group Spam

[Hobbes]

The recent quest group and previous have been fun as always, but all the spam is gonna give me a seizure one of these days i think. I had some thoughts on how to cut down on spam.

Would it be possible to divide a group into several columns when the group command is typed? Each subgroup could also have a subgrouptell command. Stuff for the whole group could be said over grouptell, but other stuff could be sent to only a smaller group of players.

How this would be useful?

-One column could be a healo. All healo spam would be sent to healos only.

-You could create multiple prot chains, which i think would be very fun. Sure, you can do that now, but it would be confusing with two whiners and such. The 2 whiners could go to only the appropriate healo with subgrouptell.

-Pertaining to the recent cleric posts, maybe a healo leader could be created which would get bonus XP let tank and leader. This may be a stretch since good healers are often autonomous, but maybe something could be worked out.

Anyway, just some thoughts to save my eyes

[Clink]

This is an interesting suggestion. Really, I think the crux of what you are saying is based on communication.

Assuming we have the subgrouptells, it would likely be a different command so you can control where stuff is sent. This is likely to cause people to believe stuff like "I told Agemo in the group that I wanted that helm. He's such a greedy bastard!" When in fact he was just in a different subgroup so he didn't here it.

When someone leaves or joins the group, they have to be put into the proper subgroup, and then in the proper order. This seems like a lot of extra work for the leader, but will also likely require additional group leader commands, or perhaps subgroup leaders.

There is already ability to create channels on the fly, so a group could just decide that a tank could use some channel to whine on as well as the healo to communicate on.

Now perhaps you have much more complicated notions in mind with the protect chains, but this would start putting a lot more spatial stuff into the game. This may not be a bad thing, it just hasn't yet been designed for it. By this I mean, say you have two protect chains, this implies to me that the two tanks (one in each subgroup) are the closest to the mob. This may not mean much, but perhaps you could explain where you are going with this portion if it is in fact more than just communication.

Clink

P.S. I do not intend to persuade anyone's opinion either way on whether or not Agemo is a greed bastard.

[12345]

[quote="Clink":3hvrj5jl]There is already ability to create channels on the fly, so a group could just decide that a tank could use some channel to whine on as well as the healo to communicate on.[/quote:3hvrj5jl]

Create, yes. But you can only be on one channel at a time. Most that use channels are on ~dragonsworn~, hosers, russian, etc. There's also only 1 channel talk command. This would be a fairly cool idea, but I don't think that as a leader I would tell my tank and healo to join a separate channel just to avoid the spam. Mostly because it's too common (especially in quests) to need people outside of the healo to heal the tank.

Although there are instances, such as the last quest, where it would have been helpful to have more than one group but the same leader. Ie. Minstrel is leader, but several sub-leaders have the ability to run around and explore different continents and such. Overall, these are pretty rare occurences, and the setup and use would probably render it unused if it did exist.

What might actually be useful is if there were quick gmove commands.

ie. gmove ac -> players are arranged by armor class
ie. gmove level -> players are arranged by level
ie. gmove protect -> players without protect are moved to bottom of group

With the existing gset commands, this would allow you to quickly combine two group if you did decide to break up a large group for quests. Sub leader follows main leader, gsets leader to main leader, main leader can then gmove ac, gmove level, gmove protect and the protect order is more or less set with just a couple manual moves necessary.

For multiple protect chains, it might already be possible using gset, though the necessary gmoves would be prohibitive. ie. Break into two groups, set protect chains, and then gset to the main leader. The issue would be shuffling the groups back together manually.

Smurfy stuff... I'll shut up.

[Avatar]

I had similar problems during this last quest. I blame it on being away for so long...dealing with large amounts of spam seems to be a skill that improves with practice. I was definitely out of practice. One thing that I noticed as helpful was Kronk's tank reporter, which had different color blocks for different status. At times, I didn't have time to read and understand the current hp vs. max hps, and the color codes helped keep the tank alive. Well, it helped anyway, it's possible the tank might have died MORE often without the color codes

The commands already implemented certainly help (concise, gag fight, etc). It seems to me that the actual combat (hits/misses/massacres) is pretty well managed. I'd really like to see a similar "gag spells" command, which would get rid of all the spellcasting spam. Maybe a few options would be convenient, ie. the healo might want to see healing type spells but doesn't want to see blasting spells. Most of the time I'd prefer not to see 'utility' spells...who cares if 6.tank casts strength or stone skin?

Well, just a thought. Also, if players can make toggles for their mob reporters that might help. Unfortunately, I'm guilty of this. The only mob report trigger I have reports when a target is acid-blinded. It was useful during the old ettin groups, but doesn't really help when a mob summons 32 wolves and someone uses acid shower. I think two combat rounds passed before my character was done spamming acid blinded! messages. I'll be adding a toggle for that soon

[Hobbes]

Regarding Clink's comments about two tanks, yes I think two tanks would be cool. If you did have two tanks, you would need some way to heal them and report, so that is why I was thinking of the subgroups and such, which yes, would be messy. Mostly I was just thinking that it would be fun to have a bit more diversity in groups instead of the one long prot chain.

Couple other grouping thoughts: In the cleric post someone said something about a clasp that would keep clerics from attacking and being attacked. Personally I think a mob should be able to attack whoever it wants, but I have another idea. Why do area attacks automatically engage all players hit by the attack? Just because a dragon spits fire into the whole room shouldn't mean it is now fighting all 10 or so players. Making it harder for players to be drawn into fight I think would be better than clasp idea. Casters in the back would still take damage from area attack, but not be engaged unless mob target them or they themselves attack.

Last thoughts for group skills: Thief skill diversion: similar to rescue. When mob attacks down prot chain thief can cause diversion which causes mob to disengage from others and attack thief. Warrior then saves thief. Might help buy time in broken prot chain when warrior can't rescue everyone that's being hit. A last ditch effort before staff?

Druid shift skills: Maybe make some shift abilities that would be useful in group? Druids can't prot shifted, but make certain forms hard to hit or engage but stilll have uses. Suggestion:

Hawk can gouge. Make gouge a bit more effective than blind maybe, but hawk has chance to get whacked by mob since he's in close.

Dragon form: Beat wings. Dragon able to create whirlwind or something with wings to knock mob down and stun. Make a bit more effective than bash and other skills, but also have small chance of knocking down players engaged with the mob.

Cheers

[Tetsulunathaya]

Really, a seperate channel or subgroup wouldn't be needed, just customization of whiners and such.

Heres what ya do to multi-tank.

Sample Group:
LeaderA
TankA
TankB
WarriorA
WarriorB
ClericA
ClericB
Cleric2A
Cleric2B
MageA
MageB
Mage2B

[u:ibp2tc7m][b:ibp2tc7m]Protect Order:[/b:ibp2tc7m][/u:ibp2tc7m]

TankA -> WarriorA -> ClericA -> Cleric2A -> MageA -> LeaderA
TankB -> WarriorB -> ClericB -> Cleric2B -> MageB -> Mage2B

Now, roughly half the hits will go to each tank, as the mob assigns hits *normally* from the tank down the protect order, or something similar. [so 6 attacks would go down the line, one to each tank, one to each warrior, 1 to the 1st two clerics, protects taking 3 to each tank, roughly]

This can be easily run in a group by having them place (groupA) or (groupB) in thier gjob, or whatever.

[u:ibp2tc7m][b:ibp2tc7m]Whiners:[/b:ibp2tc7m][/u:ibp2tc7m]

Whiners would be the next big problem. Not confusing the healo. Simple.

Have the tank modify thier whiner, puting ((GROUP A)) in it, and ((GROUP B)), set as a variable for group label. Then the healo can gag whatever they aren't in. Group A gags the gtells with ((GROUP B)) in it, so they never see the others whine. Non-healo will still see both, so can float and such if something goes wrong.




And there you have a group with 2 active tanks, splitting the hits, and 2 unconfused healos. This would greatly improve the efficiency of healers against massive hitting mobs, as it will reduce overheals as tanks arn't going into death threats in a single round, so is much more healable. (healing 2 tanks from say 600/1000 is better then one from 200/1000).





Anyway. I agree, in larger groups, the spam can get horrid. the spell gag idea seems pretty good. Prehaps when 'gagged', you only see your spells, and spells of those engaged with you (you and mobs, etc.)

[Chobbles]

Hm... maybe it's just me, but what you're describing seems to be just two completely autonomous groups which share the same leader. Might as well split the group into two groups. Managing a group of 30+ is tough enough, let alone two prot chains complete with their own healo and all the fun accessories of a group.

The concept of grouping itself, to me anyways, is to take several relatively weaker individuals and form them into what is essentially one giant mob via a continuous prot chain, so that you can kill other giant mobs. What is being suggested seems to take this to another scale; instead of a group comprised of individuals, you have a group comprised of well, groups. However, given the amount of raw damage those quest mobs were doing to me, I don't know if splitting the group up would have done much. A 2.point position would have been nice, a buddy to split hits and float upwards with. Guess that was the entire upper half of the group during that last quest @_@. Just basing it off Tetsa's comment about "(healing 2 tanks from say 600/1000 is better then one from 200/1000".

While the ideas of creating separate channels for tank/healo may seem simple in theory, to coordinate it amongst a group of 10+ would be tricky, let alone a quest-size group. I vaguely recall the idea of multiple quest groups at one time; I think that'd be a fun twist, and would also reduce the spam for one individual. Filters can be a solution too. Just filter for grouptells and other pertinent information. That way you can just read vitals i.e. tank whiner/leader's instructions from a small window that is largely free of all the "Kronk is dead! R.I.P. Again." messages that keep on popping up.

Gag fight and concise are your friends .

Chobbles/Kronk

[thina]

maybe use "think" as another channel. i believe only those in the room with you can see what you are thinking? also you can turn it off.

just an idea.