More Alignment / Supplicant nerfing

[Blastem]

As if it wasn't bad enough having to spend 2-3 runs trying to get alignment good ... hit one good mob and ...


Winds of Flame pour from your hands, killing Lady Drea instantly.
Lady Drea has been banished to the ethereal plane!
You received 1041867 experience points.
You are buffeted by waves of remorse! ... it passes.
Blastem`s eudaemon looks at you disapprovingly, and vanishes!
Blastem`s eudaemon stops following you.
Everything Lady Drea was carrying suddenly drops to the ground.

could maybe see if this had even dropped me to evil ... but it just dropped me to the lower end of neutral....

I thought atonement was supposed to be the fix for having to hit a good mob... then after killing an evil mob.. and my alignment starts heading back up..... I get this:


<118hp 65ma 147mv>


cast 'restoration' blastem
Ok.
The cleansing fires of healing fill your body!

<314hp 4ma 147mv>

Revel in the completion of your journey to evil!


Guess we can't even cast healing on ourselves without dropping alignment

Thanks for another great change.

Blastem

[Autolycos]

cast 'firewind'
Ok.
Winds of Flame pour from your hands, killing a greenish kappa instantly.
A greenish kappa is dead! R.I.P.
You are buffeted by waves of remorse! ... it passes.
Autolycos`s eudaemon looks at you disapprovingly, and vanishes!
Autolycos`s eudaemon stops following you.
Total exp for kill is 1865112.

Your blood freezes as you hear a greenish kappa's death cry.
A kappa's spirit breaks as its material form is destroyed, leaving a
unholy shriek in the room.

With this 1 mob I went from Good Example, to Bad Example.... And my rabbit goes POOF!


ok, i thought the whole alignment pissing match was finally over. So you FORCED us to pick a specific manner of playing, just so we can use our spells etc. Now since we finally get that all sorted out, and resume playing. You find that you have to go and screw shit up worse? So is there a specific reason behind poofing our supps, or do you really enjoy making people sick of your pointless modification things to non-existance. At some point your either going to have to take a break from OVER-ENGINEERING the same items, and quite possibly work on something different...

[Weasel]

heh.. removed suplication and grace aliases from my client a while ago.. seemed an exercise in frustration trying to use them. I wonder if grace will fall off too once you go below -3 or -4 (grace actually stops allowing you to cast it around -3.5 evil rating previously, but didn't drop off if you had it up already).

[Autolycos]

yeah, this pretty much makes me not even want supps at all..

[12345]

Clerics still get followers sometimes?

[12345]

I was running around mindlessly the other day and found my alignment to be particularly entertaining. Since it'll be quite some time before either supplication or grace is useful to me and I don't really feel like casting detect good and evil all the time, it's fun to watch my alignment jump up and down in my new prompt. It's even more fun with the cool new messages that highlight my moral issues. They may actually earn the honor of my first official gags in my new client.

One kill evil and key spells that randomly change alignment simply make alignment too troublesome to worry about. So I actually have to rest to regen again instead of just summoning a peri. Oh well.

In the space of an hour, I was full good and full evil several times. I've decided that I'm either psychotic or schizophrenic. Probably both. Very realistic since I'm basically a serial killer. What can I say? I need spellbooks and equipment. Since I have once again been granted the ability to worship Blaster, this is probably appropriate. Maybe when I have my vault installed I'll put it in the asylum.

I'm wondering when the cool new features using alignment are going to start kicking in because right now it just looks like the admin are simply anally raping clerics for fun and profit. I could understand their bias if they were all altar boys as children, but I doubt this is the case.

So where where does the yellow brick road lead?

[Pine]

I have a suggestion to give variety to the types of supplicants and such in sloth other than basing it on alignment issues. Maybe it wouldn't work, but what is the harm of a little wishful thinking.

I think it would be better to have things move more in the direction of prime skills/followers like the Juju for necros. I know clerics get more supplicants as prime based on number of levels and such. However, I think things could move more in that direction. Since this is a multi-class game, supplicants could also be based on second and possibly tert and quad classes. i.e. a cleric/thief would have a different set of supplicants than a cleric/mage. You could do the same with necros and possibly druid forms. I leave it to others imaginations to add ideas for other classes. That way classo decisions would be more involved and might open up some new classos that are currently not as fun to play. For non-prime clerics/necros/druids there would still be a basic set of followers/forms. Anyway, this would obviously be more involved than a few alignment tweaks, but I'd be interested to know what other people think.

[12345]

I know you missed the original implementation of supplicants, but just to bring you up to speed...

Vanyel and a few other obsessive compulsives spent weeks playing Name the Supplicants so that we could summon them. We then spent a few more weeks playing What Level Are They? I'm not really sure we're finished with that game. It's now been months and we're still playing What Do They Do? The immortals are _considering_ playing Let's Write A Help File but first they want to play Let's Decide What Supplicants Do.

In the meantime, most of us have decided it's easier to just play Who Really Needs Supplicants Anyway?

So I think more supplicants would be a lot of fun.

[Pine]

Yes, I realize my ideas aren't a quick fix. Maybe its more of a next generation of sloth type idea. However, I think there is still potential.

By way of clarification, my basic idea wasn't just to add more supplicants though that may be involved. My base idea is to make the primary class more unique based on the following three classes. Another example would be a druid/thief differing from a druid/mage buy one unique prime form similar to supplicant example previously. I think the idea would add a lot more richness to the game if it were ever feasible. Classo would matter more. By giving the prime another skill or two based on subsequent classes, you could also do things like make a wa/th more desirable again as a tank in certain situations and a wa/mo better in others etc. etc. etc. Any other thoughts?

[Alberich]

classo does already count for the vast majority of how one plays - supplication was intended to be a consolation prize to clerics for losing animate (at least that is how it was mostly explained), so having it dependant on anything other than cleric levels/position in classo doesn't really make sense, imho.

[13]

This here is gay, why make changes like this ?

[Leaf]

Soooo, has anyone seen the sky today? Talk about blue.

[Krok]

Well, my 2 cents.

1. I'm cleric. Yes, I'm The One Who Uses Supplication. *poke 12345* Supps are very helpful indeed, help me in soloing alot, bla-bla-bla. Those who can't use it - my condolences.
2. Fixing alignment for the big chars (yes, we are first to whine) _is_ easy and is a matter of a run or two.
3. Atonement spell is really tooooo long to wait for. Sucks.
3. The stupid thing with supps leaving us after "wrong" kills is annoying. But I believe we'll cope with it like we coped with strange perma-regen system, removed animates etc.

[13]

[url:2xs4und0]http://www.tard-blog.com/index.php[/url:2xs4und0]

[madmax]

Heres my take,

Yes I am a cleric too. I _rarely_ use supplicants. Occasionally if i am good enough, I will use the thunderbird to relocate myself. As far as fighting, I might use a eudaemon (if i happen to be good) but since I can't kill hardly anything solo without the use of necro followers, I tend to be perm-evil. Just by summoning/animating necro followers, not even fighting anything, my alignment drops.

[quote:1txbt3oq]2. Fixing alignment for the big chars (yes, we are first to whine) _is_ easy and is a matter of a run or two. [/quote:1txbt3oq]

Not for me. It can take an hour soloing without followers to get good. The easiest way for me to get good is to be in a group healing, other than that, without a backstab or deathgrip, I do not have a good lead. I guess i cold stay in town and give free heals long enough to change my alignment, but that would take a while too.

As far as attonement, I have the spell, but i have _never_ casted it. It would not help me in any way with the way I have to solo.

One more comment on alignment, Clerics are mostly by nature good beings. It seems _very_ odd to me that the cleric prime autoquest _requires_ cycling a mob that is pure holy. Instantly decreasing your alignment to tainted with evil. It seems to me that more thought should have gone into the new alignment procdures before implementing them.

Madmax