Conspiracy or State's preparing for the worst?

[jezer]

Weaselism - Your friend has more cows, you take his cows and stab him in the face!

Tapism - You spend your time trying to convince others they are better off murdering their cows.

Truthism - You gather everyones cows together and attack an elephant.

Mediosism - His cows are better than yours.

Akashaism - You have two cows, they yield 0.51 % per annum.

Heckism - All your cows can belong to him!

Apprenticism - You sell your feed for money.

Virusism - You make a spirit watcher to watch everyone elses cows.

Nomicism - You thank God for the good news about your cows.

Assirianism - You help everyone else with there cows.

Rovenaism - Everytime your cow gets big, you start a calf.

Reboogism - You have 2 cattle. Cattle: Good nick length.

[Tap]

I'm not in finance at all. What i've stated is only speculation . I would only state to look into such matters for yourself and try to sort truth from hype. I actually thought China was more like North Korea. But I see that it is not.
Not something that I've said negative about it so I don't know how I even got on that train of thought. Someone posted earlier that Republican's didn't really care about tax cuts and that they were only taking that stance for political reasons aka votes. That's probably true, however look at the people who are casting their votes for them. It's the same people that don't want to pay more and more taxes for wasteful spending. It's the double standard that the government does that is finally catching up to them. They can NOT pay you your tax refund but you try not to pay them taxes..you'll go to jail. They tell you you are wasting energy and fuel..then fly around the country in private jets and preach about global warming in 30 degree weather. It's the same reason Osama, yes OSAMA, wants to clamp down on talk radio...they hate when issues are broadcast and politicians exposed. America is quickly becoming Cuba. Or trying too...I firmly believe that something is going to make the straw break the camels back and bring this all to head. And it's sooner than later I'm afraid.

Jezerism - You have two cows but you don't realize it because no one told you.

[jezer]

Little disappointed about Jezerism there Tap, I expected a little more impact.

[reboog]

Juggleblood: I did a search for china capitalism and this is what I got.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB ... 70423.html

Wall Street Journal is a reputable source. I haven't read any articles past the first one yet.

[Leaf]

Actually i read some where that China is hurtting right now with the US.
Since US owns China 1.7 trillion dollars on borrowed funds already. But
thats not the reason why China is hurtting. Look at everything that you
own. I bet 75% of them were made in China. If the USA ppl r not buying,
then China doesn't need to "make" more products. So currently they have
millions of unemployeed ppl too.

I also wanted to add this link. I'm sure A LOT of ppl have saw this video.
But if not, watch it. Its about 8mins long. But alot of this story makes
sense....
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8700958565

[reboog]

China controls their inflation by locking their money into US Treasuries.

Yes, China is hurting. They depend on exports to sustain their growth. It has fallen by 17.5% (that is a big number!) as US and Europe are no longer looking for their goods.

[jezer]

Yeah everyone talks up china and japan... but they are export economies... look at them now...

Prediction: Economic crisis will see China look internally at there markets... allowing a new middle class to arise, with less emphasis on exports... with huge demands for goods internally they will become the new world economic power. America is/will fall away.

[*juggleblood*]

Reboog, I don't see the point of that question. The currently unemployed vs. the currently employed? Preventing unemployment just as good as making new jobs. What to do when all the holes are filled? I think there's more to the stimulus package than filling potholes. Hopefully the stimulus puts the economy back on positive growth and those pot hole fillers go to work fixing stuff in the private sector, building new walmarts and starbucks, all the same old stuff they did when the economy was working.

[Tap]

Don't hold your breath..America will either change for the worse or they will be a dramatic uprising. In any case, it will be dramatically different within a short period of time. I'm leaning towards the later...the "changes" coming about are from a minority of people.. I quickly see the wall approaching where unless the current course of action doesn't change direction, it will smack itself straight in the face.

[reboog]

re: filling potholes - That's what infrastructure is about. I'm using that term tongue in cheek, but construction work is construction work.

We've seen consumers cut down on spending because they have tons of debt. If they are not spending at Walmart and Starbucks (okay Walmart continues strong, Starbucks however is suffering big time), why would these companies build new buildings?

I know you are just giving examples of businesses, but here are some facts.

1. Restaurants are suffering. They have lost tons of revenue, and places are starting to cut their prices (deflation).
2. Retail sale is falling apart.
3. Auto sales are falling.
4. Hotels are losing tons of customers.

Once the infrastructure is complete, where will they go next? The economy was only working because people were spending beyond their means. Surely you're not suggesting that we go back to that, or that people are willing to go back to that? (It's a fact that people are not willing to go back to that; this is also what is known as a credit freeze, a credit crisis, a credit squeeze)

[Medios]

Now that the consumer and the State's are in debt, they look to the Federal government for a bailout. Who will the Federal government turn to for a bailout? The taxpayer is who. All the money the government prints or borrows will be paid with interest in the form of massive inflation or a raise in taxes. The only way the government can keep this ponzi scheme going is to make our money worth less. That reduces debt obligations by making our debt worth less. However once the other countries catch on it will be hell because they will stop buying our debt and look to other places to invest their capital. Once Treasuries peak and collapse we will see the government rush to find "new money". Remember Treasury bonds were supposed to be used to fund wars not budgets. With a contracting GDP the amount of money needed just to pay the interest on debt increases. They can't keep borrowing the way out.

One problem with free markets is that when you have governments of countries doing massive growth projects(China,India,UAE,etc) the cost of commodities will briefly rise due to supply and demand. We had a period of low supply for commodities and it hurt our economy through rising prices. Couple that with ignorant consumers that already have debt and you got a powderkeg waiting for someone smoking to toss the butt. The inflated commodity prices took its toll on finished goods(gas,food,etc). The people that were already stretched thin took a hit on these staples. Plus due to Alan Greenspan and his idea of having low interest rates for years(which led to massive bank over leveraging) the amount of risk in the market was huge. When people can borrow money for free, they don't put as much planning into things as they would if it was their own money. So how do we fix this problem? We are going to borrow even more money and lower interest rates even further.

[jezer]

I don't think there is an answer. All one can do is ride it out.

[reboog]

It's what Keynes described as the paradox of thrift. To get out of a recession, you have to increase aggregate demand. I am not an economist, but on what grounds do we believe that this will work?

Jezer: Yes, we have to ride it out. What we don't have to do is lengthen that ride, which is exactly what this particular stimulus and bailouts do.

[jezer]

[quote="reboog":1dwcym6s]Jezer: Yes, we have to ride it out. What we don't have to do is lengthen that ride, which is exactly what this particular stimulus and bailouts do.[/quote:1dwcym6s]

Yeah, I get the picture of a motor not working... (wow that's an awesome picture jezer, tell us mores!)... so you go to it and try and restart it all the time (stimulus)... but that's not going to work... cause it's broke! You have to take time out, rebuild the engine before you start it. It takes time and money and there are going to be consequences, things aren't going to be the same anymore.

It's kind of funny how everyone is trying to cast 'phase door' at the moment... heh, you sowed crap, now your reaping it... you can't reload your game... you can't just phase door out of the mess... there are consequences! All you can do is face them, life will go on, economy or no economy. I really don't think there is a magic bullet... I mean you could say worldwide debt cancellation... but that's not realistic.

[*juggleblood*]

This thread is depressing.