Totally confuzled

[Autolycos]

onyly +13 to hit? *comf

[osric]

Nod, I got rid of most of my +hit gear as it seemed excessive to me, I mean a forty level thief warrior should be able to hit like -19 without any bonuses, or at any rate shouldn't need to much gear to help hit an old womanly opponent like a gargoyle or a pirate

[Autolycos]

[quote="osric":1akdjijo] or at any rate shouldn't need to much gear to help hit an old womanly opponent like a gargoyle or a pirate [/quote:1akdjijo]

pirate eh?

don't make me smac you!

[kjartan]

[quote="osric":2lja11zy]What have their ACs been changed to? I just ran gargs and with 40 levels of thief and warrior and a +13 to hit I was still missing sometimes as many as three hits per round. I still managed to get through to themwith the other two but it just seemed that perhaps they had a better ac than even -12. I'm not trying to whine here, just wondering. [/quote:2lja11zy]

Actually there are a lot of different identical-appearing gargoyles and their ACs run the range from -12 down to -18 or so. I think the ACs get lower as you get higher up the tower, but this was a while ago I now am not 100% sure of that.

And: in general we aren't planning on raising the ACs on stab mobs, we are more looking at high-hp mobs for that. I just chose the gargoyles totally at random as a-mob-to-raise-the-AC-on to see what the effect was. As Splork suggested, I didn't even look to see if it was a stab mob or what. If it's a great hardship, I can put them back eventually.

On the other hand, maybe a thief-with-really-high-hitroll character build would be worthwhile if we made splork mobs with high ACs that were too dangerous to hit if you didn't have the hitroll for it, but gave better xp if you did...

[12345]

[quote="osric":os2935p3]Nod, I got rid of most of my +hit gear as it seemed excessive to me, I mean a forty level thief warrior should be able to hit like -19 without any bonuses, or at any rate shouldn't need to much gear to help hit an old womanly opponent like a gargoyle or a pirate [/quote:os2935p3]

I think the way the math works out a +13 hit is closer to -11 than -19.

[Marchessa_red_witch]

[quote="*kjartan*":11bjv8r1][quote="osric":11bjv8r1]
And: in general we aren't planning on raising the ACs on stab mobs, we are more looking at high-hp mobs for that. I just chose the gargoyles totally at random as a-mob-to-raise-the-AC-on to see what the effect was. As Splork suggested, I didn't even look to see if it was a stab mob or what. If it's a great hardship, I can put them back eventually.

On the other hand, maybe a thief-with-really-high-hitroll character build would be worthwhile if we made splork mobs with high ACs that were too dangerous to hit if you didn't have the hitroll for it, but gave better xp if you did...[/quote:11bjv8r1][/quote:11bjv8r1]

That sounds reasonable, let mega thieves hunt thin but armored stab mobs.

[osric]

Heh just remembering old 2nd ed D&d where a 40th level warrior would actually have had a thaco around -18. Of course in third ed a 40 warrior would have a basic attack bonus of around 30 and lets face it have some huge final bonus of around 45 (if not more). Either way I think high level characters should always hit their opponents unless they role the proverbial 1. I don't think high level chars should be missing this stuff based on to hit alone. I think a high level char should be able to find the chinks in armor. Now of course this is just being implemented and will no doubt have a bug or two here or there and as the imms have already mentioned not every mob in the game will now be AC -20. I find it does make things somewhat more interesting, but believe me I die plenty on the mobs that are out there already, just ask the people who have to come rescue my newbish ass!

[kjartan]

If all high-level characters regardless of class or eq always hit, then there's no value to hitroll eq. That is part of the situation we're trying to rectify. It would be reasonable for someone with the most-hittingest classo with all the best hitroll eq to always hit, but then other people should not always hit or else what's the point of being in the most-hittingest classo with the most-hittingest eq?

[Avatar]

I'd try to set things up so that equal characters have a 50% chance to hit each other. So, 5th level warrior hitting a 5th level warrior-type creature would have 50% hit rate. Bonuses help, so swordsmanship, +hit from str, etc would bump that 5th level character to maybe 65%, and with full eq maybe 75%.

Characters should then only get 95% hit rate on lower level targets or caster type mobs that shouldn't be wearing as much armor.

Then caster classes would of course have a lower hit rate due to levels. I know all you quad caster types would rarely hit the largest warrior type creatures (5%), but that's why proc weapon blasts always hit. You'd need pretty substantial +hit bonuses to maintain a high hit rate. That should be another drawback to quad casters - no martial class means you lack some skills in fighting.

[13]

The thing is, NO-ONE wants to have to **** around with +hit eq. No-one, the whole game. No-one, unless you're gonna feature some new eq like .4 +1hit rings or something where people don't have to choose between +hit and spelldmg/HD/dmg/AC/Anything else.

[*Splork*]

We have a ton of new areas going ingame within the next few months. I am quite sure we will concentrate our new eq efforts in the areas you are talking about 13.

Splork

[alias]

on a related note can we please work on deathtouch some more. Im runnin +13 hitroll war prime thaco and missing on touch at least 50% sometimes more even when quake sings brothers to me it doesnt seem to help much.
I cant think that my equivilant to a single stab would be out of line if it hit as much as stab does when they average double.



alias

[*Splork*]

Right now, the combined deathtouch hitrates are about 81% and we are quite happy with that.

It is one of the most used avatar skills or spells. I really do not see us tweaking it much more than possibly another couple % points, if that.

Splork

[osric]

Indeed, to clarify I meant that warrior types should be hitting, I do think casters should be hitting somewhat less often. But come on there are so many sexier bumps to have than to hit, lets face it anything (even move regen) is more fun! I sincerely hope that I don't have to start supping a peri instead of a eudaemon or changing out cool hand gear for silver guantlets just to make it through the day here on sloth. To hit eq usually equals lame eq, just my two cents worth.

[13]

Thanks Rick