Bots

[Rasufe]

I didn't even realize that I was being discussed on the forums.

I might as well attempt to defend myself as well as I can. The specific situation you are talking about I actually did have you gagged, as I was sitting there at my computer spamming circlestab while assisting while you recalled me out of nowhere. I took a screenshot(ill post it as soon as I am off campus and back on my apartment), just in case I could compile them for a case of you harassing me. I had no idea that you were talking to me, as I downloaded a script pack off wintin that allows me to gag players completely (including gt, say, gossip, auction, etc). Please do not heavily slant the story, as I only removed you from my gag list after Zuzu grouptelled that you were trying to talk to me. (If you would like, I will post the gag script also when I get home)

As with the eq group in Thule, I have no excuse. I was there at the computer, and I happened to be at work also. It got super busy, and I had to take care of my real life job first. When I was recalled, I did not even complain, I rested at the recall point so I would not follow the leader anywhere after that. Do not make up claims that I argued etc, because that is not the case. I sat down and apologized when I got the chance then rented when I got the chance.

I do not get this obsession you have with me Element, but I added you to my gag list in the hopes that you would just get bored and go away and move on to harassing someone else. Sorry, I just started playing the game a few weeks ago, and yes I am a newbie. Even so, I have NEVER set up scripts and just walked away from the computer. I have always been present.

I would have gladly debuffed (as little help as a level 10 quad mage with 120 mana and 12 int) if the LEADER had said so. If the LEADER had an issue, then I would have gladly resolved that issue and left. You were not the leader in either cases, so please, do as I had said before and mind your own business. I do not understand where you get off on trying to ruin other people's gameplay experience, clearly you need a hobby or some other outlet. This especially shines through that you took the time and effort to come and post about this on the forums...smh.

If you leaders do not want to group with me then let me know, then I will go and solo or lead for the rest of my sloth career(as long or as short as it may be). I have been attempting to level my quad so I can start debuffing more (I just got it to 14 today), but if that isn't enough then just let me know and I will gladly leave.

Thank you.

[Rasufe]

Just sayin'..no bell no message just a random recall mid fight

[Teron]

Just bringing this up, because:
- my friend was left to die and corpse, because the ISP (that we share, btw) lost link - happens once in 1-3 weeks for 20 seconds - 3 hours
- he wasn't botting, but was accused of botting by a number of people, some even said that he always bots, even though before he lost link, he had less, than 50% of his max mana (I know he doesn't bot, just doesn't talk a lot)

This struck me as weird: a few people - deliberately or not - have wrongfully accused a player of a punishable/wipable offense and let him corpse. From what I understand, no checks were done to see, if the person, indeed, was present (i.e, his scripts were working, but he wasn't responding). Not only I'm surprised at the viciousness of such attacks from people I respected before the case, but that such checks weren't done as well.

To debunk a few moments, which were brought up in that accident
- when your ISP loses link, you aren't disconnected (at least, as far as I understand)
- autoassist happens, when you are in the front and are perceived as playing by the MUD

With that in mind, I guess it'd be safe to:
- identify the botter, if he doesn't respond, but his scripts are working (portals, food, all up, warcry assist, etc)
- recall bots

Not getting exp from the group while not responding, when on the run, seems adequate enough.

I'm not sure if this was the plan - to let false positives happen. But if they do, you'll quickly find people leaving, because being slammed and lose exp for something you have little control over (short of changing a good ISP to another with unknown stability) is no fun.

So, to clarify this once more, I consider botting as not responding or doing what's told by the leader, when running.

[*juggleblood*]

This thread shows why this is such a difficult issue. Maybe Teron's standard of botting as failure to follow instructions is the only one that could possibly be enforceable by the leader. And maybe calling out botters should be left for the leader or designated persons only. Otherwise it's going to be a contentious argument every time.

By Teron's standard if the leader asked said-newb to stop auto-assist and debuff, then said-newb should, or leader can choose to recall them. In this case if other party members get mad that he's not debuffing, they can take it up with the leader or just suck it up, rather than start a big fight. Just a suggestion.

[Teron]

Well, as far as forbidden botting is concerned, the only immortal problem is if whether the person is at the keyboard - as far as I understand. So that's what I'm sticking with and it's not my definition. Maybe the imm staff would like to clarify it here, if it's different from the one I presented, since clearly there probably is an immortal standard of botting?

I agree that it's mostly up to the leader, but other players can bring attention to a specific player as well. In that particular incident, the leader chose to leave the person die and corpse, all the while the person was drowning and wasn't able to shift to frog (under druid levels), so that he couldn't have responded. Maybe leaving a person in an underwater area counts as a check, but it is prone to errors, obviously. One of the safest ways is to ask the person to do something, do prompt visible triggers and observe for food triggers (apart from walking on their own).

I wouldn't really mind if they other players did their AFK checks on their own and informed the leader of the fact that someone's botting.

But if the leader and the players don't do any checks - which is a vital element of bot battling, IMHO - then accidents happen and this is what brings any arguments up.

[*juggleblood*]

Why keep putting it on the immorts tho. You still run into the same heated arguments, some angry player who's gonna disrupt the whole group until they get their satisfaction. The botter will deny, the leader will throw up their arms in exasperation. I just think people should defer to the leader to decide if someone is a botter. It's not an easy call, people aren't going to agree, and it shouldn't muck up the group.