The Moral Majority

[tincts]

"And that's why the amount change any government can ever make will always be inversely proportional to the number of politicians that have a say about it"


Yep I'm all for monarchy/dictatorship

[alias]

Want a dictatorship Tinct? might as well move here were damn close to it now.

just remember its all for the sake of the children *puke*

[Rynquald]

Honestly I'd say that monarchies strike (imo anyway) the best balance between having a power-crazed dictator and a large group of squabbling politicians.

The primary problem with a dictator (hypothetical dictator that's in it for the right reasons at the start, not referring to anyone in particular) is that they will see threats to their leadership everywhere, when a monarch or elected government knows that the people disagree with them, they will feel that they have a right to do what they see as best, and that the populace understands it (of course the exception would be an elected ruler acting against the real public interest in favour of doing what will secure them votes).

But people are more likely to resist a dictator, which they may (quite rightly) feel has no right to make choices for them, at the first stirrings of dissent, the dictator will feel that they have to tighten their grip in order to remain in control, even if there was no real danger. The effect of course being a chain reaction of ever larger numbers of people speaking out, countered by an ever larger use of oppressive techniques to retain order.

To cut a long story short, a dictator is always doomed to become the victim of their own rule, and an elected government will always eventually become pointlessly slow. But a monarch can act without years of arguing, can act with the knowledge that it is their birthright to do so, and most of all in importance, feels responsibility to not destroy their line by doing anything too moronic.

Just my two cents though, probably all wrong

[13]

[quote:1q1t2p5m]I think Americans don't understand what we want from our politicians. If you want someone with Integrity, who won't back down, who insists on doing what he thinks is right, then keep supporting Bush. You can't argue that he hasn't persevered through a lot of criticism and challenge to continue his passion, the one issue he's most concerned with, the war. [/quote:1q1t2p5m]

I want this, but I want the guy to want the right things not this garbage.

[tincts]

My favorite ruler is the ruler of the universe depicted in hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy - as a person who wants to rule by definition is unsuited to the job (as decisions will be primarily influenced by the desire to maintain rule), (power corrupts etc.), the ultimate ruler is one who [b:spswvokz]doesn't even know[/b:spswvokz] that he's the ruler.

Then again, I'm not sure Bush knows where his own nose is, so that probably invalidates the point.

[Autolycos]

[i:vz57ix1z][b:vz57ix1z]*applaud* nice tincts![/b:vz57ix1z][/i:vz57ix1z]

I'd vote!

[img:vz57ix1z]http://www.xgenco.com/stuff/zaphod2.jpg[/img:vz57ix1z]

[Mosaix]

Magrathea!!!

[Avatar]

Nice points Tincts, I agree.

[Weasel]

[quote="mahkra":aqr70tb1]My father was an auditor in this state and the problem is definitely not the the teachers. There is so much screwball accounting going on with funding and absolutely no accountability that the money will never get to the actual teachers.
In one small town the trust fund manger for the schools lost several million in bad investments and he still holds the same job several years later. Every time the the voters protest with their money and votes, the problem just gets worse. Government will just not clean up their act. [/quote:aqr70tb1]

I'm working as an auditor at Dept of Education at the moment (internship).. only dealing with a segment of the big picture, but yeah, when someone starts ripping off the system, the biggest problem it seems is that it takes forever to actually get anything done about it - the saying that it's near impossible to get fired from a govt job is apparently true, and at least some of that has to do with powerful unions and lawyers and having to cross every T and dot every I..

In addition, the backlogs of work in some areas are so immense it can be years before records are even looked at, by which time the culprit has done a bunch more and, as I've heard, quite often skipped out to who knows where, or signed everything over to family members so it can't be recouped.

One of my professors was an auditor for the IRS, dealing with large corporates. Due to lack of funding and thus an utterly understaffed office, they only audit a tiny portion of the corporate returns, and just from that manage to recoup many many millions of dollars every quarter. Their small group made more 'revenue' than any other govt sub-dept (other than the normal collection of taxes itself), yet budget cuts want to reduce them. Logic to me says increase their numbers, but logic and govt bureaucracy are eons apart it seems. I'm guessing the same applies to my area.. more people where it counts might help channel the flow of money to where it is needed, rather than to lining the pockets of asshats all along the way..

[Weasel]

[quote="Autolycos":1d4mwmtn][quote="Weasel":1d4mwmtn]perhaps I should get my tinfoil hat ready..[/quote:1d4mwmtn]

Made this just for you bro

[img:1d4mwmtn]http://www.xgenco.com/sloth3/weaselhat.jpg[/img:1d4mwmtn][/quote:1d4mwmtn]

LOL classic, thanks mate

[osric]

To answer a question Avatar posed a while back, no, I haven't ever run for public office (well I did run for student senate in college, but while that was official I don't really count it). However I did work closely on the campaign of a friend of mine for city council. It was actually a horribly disheartening experience, the political arena even in a small town can be really all about dirty fighting and lowest common denominator tactics. So if you are trying to get into politics to change things for the better you don't stand much chance at all. But if you want to get into politics to be self serving its actually a lot easier because political parties and bosses know that you can be bought, seriously. My friend lost his race for city council against a guy who during the race got not one but 2 dui charges and assaulted a police officer and tried to use his political office to get out of the ticket, but people still preferred him to my candidate who had never been in trouble with the law but wasn't backed by the local party bosses. I lost a lot of faith in the American voter that day.

[mahkra]

The American political system was designed to create gridlock. These are supposed to be the checks and balances that keep enormously bad decisions from becoming the law of the land. Where the founding fathers blew it was in their vague definition of the judiciary (It is the least defined in the constitution and bill of rights). This setup a system where a president could legislate law bypassing the congress and ultimately could even grant congress or the president absolute authority. This is entirely possible and may happen (It already has in limited cases i.E martial law being imposed on LA and New Orleans -Thanks Richard Nixon!). Bush has certainly manipulated this system more effectively than probably any other president.

Integrity is the basing of one's actions on an internally consistent framework of principles. –Wikipedia

If that is the case than this president may have integrity. What I call into question is his principals which amazingly enough weren’t supposed to matter in the Clinton years now suddenly make all the difference in the world. I blame both presidents equally for this mess. Now it is fully sanctioned to not only lie to the courts but to lie to everyone and start a war on false information and it’s OK. It’s OK to “not recall” if you are in office. If I tried any of that crap in my job I get escorted to the door ASAP. The Gonzales crap should have people revolting but instead it’s just a show to get votes.

I see everyone whining and whimpering about religion and it seems it’s either a you are with god or you are totally free from god. No one seems to realize the promise was freedom OF religion not freedom from it. If you check your history you would find that the American Revolution was started with the aid preachers in their churches preaching revolution and allowing the revolutionaries to hold meetings under their roof. Check with how that fits in what’s going on other countries right now. I.E the Islamic ones. Suddenly they are more alike us then different. Now don’t that scare the crap out of you?

Also the constitution/bill of rights(?) was penned by an extremely religious Jefferson and was filled with lots of religious rhetoric. It was edited by Franklin who replaced it with scientific verbiage. (Franklin was an amazing person. Think Bill Gates x1000 with an Edison minor)

The problem with America is it’s ignorant culture. It’s grown fat and over confident and has forgotten where it came from. That is the true moral majority that no one wants to see. If we did see it Immigration would be at the top of our list to get worked out.

The only reason I know any of this crap is that I have been researching family history and I am just about as American as anyone can get. That being dirt farming poor immigrants who crossed the land in wagons, fought Indians, were killed by Indians, landed in Normandy, were teachers, preachers and rich restaurateurs. None of which could have happened in any other country. I am the problem now.

Any bozo who comes to my door and talks to me gets my vote period regardless of party. Otherwise I think Pedro is getting a write in.

Some interesting reading
Jefferson vs Hamilton on Popular rule : http://www.pinzler.com/ushistory/hamjeffpopsupp.html

How the Scots Invented the Modern World: The True Story of How Western Europe's Poorest Nation Created Our World and Everything in It:
http://www.amazon.com/How-Scots-Invente ... 0609606352

Franklins wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Franklin

[mahkra]

oh and by the way. A large majority of the founding fathers were Masons. and the Shriners (spelled Rich Masons with goofy hats) Dedicate thier efforts to running childrens hospitals, which will treat any child requardless of ability to pay.

They get a pass from me automaticly.

[Tap]

Won't get into a long drag-out flameout here but Mason's and/Shriners have their own 'secret' covens. While on the surface they appear to be beneificial, underlying is some of the worst things you could possible imagine. I'd rather trust my son with a Catholic priest that any Shriner.

[Medios]

[quote="Tap":1q8cp6b5]Won't get into a long drag-out flameout here but Mason's and/Shriners have their own 'secret' covens. While on the surface they appear to be beneificial, underlying is some of the worst things you could possible imagine. I'd rather trust my son with a Catholic priest that any Shriner.[/quote:1q8cp6b5]

Are you saying that secret societies have something to hide?