I've never really had anything stolen from me, but i can sympathize.
It really sucks dying too. Although i don't see that being removed.
I mean it's pretty clear that keep items in robes is a good thing to do, but this whole problem started because someone removed an item to save a group.
If groups are less important than the ability to steal, then obviously something is wrong.
We ought to weigh how much thieving is worth to the mud or make it impossible to steal from people that are in groups.
This would have the added benefit of encouraging people to group.
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by Weasel » Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:34 am
Thanks for the response Krok, and sorry for ranting at you before *hugs* - yes the discussion of pthieving is old, but the subject always gets me snarly.
hmm ..'snarly'.. is that a word? I kinda like it.
Anyway, as several people have said, it is highly unlikely anything will change because sloth ain't a democracy and unfortunately one or two immorts would rather keep the majority of the playerbase pissed in order to appease one or two pthieves, and if we don't like it, I'm sure they will remind us that we can go find another mud to play on. My answer to that is, of course, go f*ck yourself you mattress-thrashing gutter slut.
hmm ..'snarly'.. is that a word? I kinda like it.
Anyway, as several people have said, it is highly unlikely anything will change because sloth ain't a democracy and unfortunately one or two immorts would rather keep the majority of the playerbase pissed in order to appease one or two pthieves, and if we don't like it, I'm sure they will remind us that we can go find another mud to play on. My answer to that is, of course, go f*ck yourself you mattress-thrashing gutter slut.
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by 12345 » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:48 am
I've debated publishing a pthief survival guide. I never seem to get to it. One of the things that I know got fixed was jail. If you jail a pthief, they're done, barring someone letting them out. You can only drop link while jailed, so they cannot bring on another char to thief with without becoming wipable. Given that a good number of imms will use almost any excuse to give a thief a bad day, it will effectly shut them down for a while. Webbing them in the street and waiting for the patrol to come by will do the trick. If you can charm the patrol leader, even better.
They like to hide in safe areas. The easiest/safest way to give them a bad day is with a 40 Avatar Druid. Piasa can walk into any safe area and 'capture pthief' to excellent effect. Spells like acid shower can do the trick... careful of where you are though. Casting at the junk dealer or similar will get you dead very quickly. Some people like to play with charming agros, which is also somewhat dangerous.
A common pthief trap is to have a large container in inventory with a couple filled water barrels in it. Assuming that it's not a th/wa pthief, the odds of them having decent strength without eq is pretty low. When the thief tries to snag the bag, he won't be able to lift it and automatically fails and becomes wanted, giving you a chance to pummel him. It also makes for a semi-safe place to keep items in inventory that you don't want to get snagged. I hear that buying the personal robes in the drach shop, like the cloak of specialization, makes for a good inventory container that can't be stolen... haven't tried that one though.
Dealing with pthiefs can be dangerous. If you decide to actively hunt one, they may experiment with client-rape. If you don't know what that is, you're much more likely to fall victim to it. Be prepared for the pthief to figure out how to force you to remove all your equipment and give it to them.. or similar. Writing good scripts is important, or you might wish to turn them off altogether.
Pthieves will also try to decieve you in any number of ways. They will emote that they have stolen from you, left the room, left the game, or any number of things. These are designed to slow you down, move you into a vulnerable area or let them escape.
Pthieves make liberal use of the quit! command. Just when you think you have them, they'll be back at the west gate and running somewhere you're not.
Pthieves know each other. If you manage to get a pthief into a bad position, he may enlist help to escape from jail, make you think they are multi-playing, and generally be a pain.
Pthieves LOVE places like the BH auction house and scribe. These are commonly thought to be safe areas and are not, so you can be pushed out of them and be vulnerable to theft. If you do change equipment in these places, rest first, so that you can't be pushed out.
Pthieves love to take advantage of small things. Like the fact you can't buy a raft on BH. It makes hiding in places like Crystal Falls much safer for them since you can't web, blind or blast them there and if you haven't got a raft, you'll have to figure out how to get one to persue them.
Pthieves love to misdirect you. If a thief quits! and shows up at the west gate with a JJD being held, you might spend a lot of time wondering how he's allowed to do that. He's not. It's a cleverly crafted description designed to mislead you. So when you finally kill him and wonder why there's not a JJD on him... that's why.
Pthieves love to flaunt their existance. Even if the thief sits in the inn for 4 hours and doesn't manage to steal anything at all, they'll talk a big show. Let them talk. Its easy to tell when a pthief actually manages to get something, because they'll immediately log out and then log on another character to negotiate a price for the return of the item.
A pthief will sell your item back to you in most cases. They will offer you a price, and you either pay it or you don't. If you don't, your item will be sold or given to someone else, or shipped to someone else who will either keep it or allow it to become unclaimed.
Insulting a pthief isn't really practical. They already know and have been told everything you can possibly think of. Trying to taunt them simply won't work, you'll never suceed in provoking them because they are scum and have long since become comfortable with it. Really.
The regen room in Treasures and Dreams is not safe in anyway, use at your own risk.
Lower level characters are protected from theft for a while. Sloth protects newbies, and this is one of the things they are protected from. I don't know what level the protection expires, but it is less than 20.
Coins are MUCH easier to steal than items. Sleeping people are much easier to steal from.
Your corpse is sacred. Any pthief stealing anything from your corpse is wipable. Multiplaying is wipable. Stealing from someone in a group is legal... I think anyway... but they can't do anything to intentionally cluster your group, like web or recall your tank, or put the healo to sleep.
I'm sure other can add more, but that's a decent start.
They like to hide in safe areas. The easiest/safest way to give them a bad day is with a 40 Avatar Druid. Piasa can walk into any safe area and 'capture pthief' to excellent effect. Spells like acid shower can do the trick... careful of where you are though. Casting at the junk dealer or similar will get you dead very quickly. Some people like to play with charming agros, which is also somewhat dangerous.
A common pthief trap is to have a large container in inventory with a couple filled water barrels in it. Assuming that it's not a th/wa pthief, the odds of them having decent strength without eq is pretty low. When the thief tries to snag the bag, he won't be able to lift it and automatically fails and becomes wanted, giving you a chance to pummel him. It also makes for a semi-safe place to keep items in inventory that you don't want to get snagged. I hear that buying the personal robes in the drach shop, like the cloak of specialization, makes for a good inventory container that can't be stolen... haven't tried that one though.
Dealing with pthiefs can be dangerous. If you decide to actively hunt one, they may experiment with client-rape. If you don't know what that is, you're much more likely to fall victim to it. Be prepared for the pthief to figure out how to force you to remove all your equipment and give it to them.. or similar. Writing good scripts is important, or you might wish to turn them off altogether.
Pthieves will also try to decieve you in any number of ways. They will emote that they have stolen from you, left the room, left the game, or any number of things. These are designed to slow you down, move you into a vulnerable area or let them escape.
Pthieves make liberal use of the quit! command. Just when you think you have them, they'll be back at the west gate and running somewhere you're not.
Pthieves know each other. If you manage to get a pthief into a bad position, he may enlist help to escape from jail, make you think they are multi-playing, and generally be a pain.
Pthieves LOVE places like the BH auction house and scribe. These are commonly thought to be safe areas and are not, so you can be pushed out of them and be vulnerable to theft. If you do change equipment in these places, rest first, so that you can't be pushed out.
Pthieves love to take advantage of small things. Like the fact you can't buy a raft on BH. It makes hiding in places like Crystal Falls much safer for them since you can't web, blind or blast them there and if you haven't got a raft, you'll have to figure out how to get one to persue them.
Pthieves love to misdirect you. If a thief quits! and shows up at the west gate with a JJD being held, you might spend a lot of time wondering how he's allowed to do that. He's not. It's a cleverly crafted description designed to mislead you. So when you finally kill him and wonder why there's not a JJD on him... that's why.
Pthieves love to flaunt their existance. Even if the thief sits in the inn for 4 hours and doesn't manage to steal anything at all, they'll talk a big show. Let them talk. Its easy to tell when a pthief actually manages to get something, because they'll immediately log out and then log on another character to negotiate a price for the return of the item.
A pthief will sell your item back to you in most cases. They will offer you a price, and you either pay it or you don't. If you don't, your item will be sold or given to someone else, or shipped to someone else who will either keep it or allow it to become unclaimed.
Insulting a pthief isn't really practical. They already know and have been told everything you can possibly think of. Trying to taunt them simply won't work, you'll never suceed in provoking them because they are scum and have long since become comfortable with it. Really.
The regen room in Treasures and Dreams is not safe in anyway, use at your own risk.
Lower level characters are protected from theft for a while. Sloth protects newbies, and this is one of the things they are protected from. I don't know what level the protection expires, but it is less than 20.
Coins are MUCH easier to steal than items. Sleeping people are much easier to steal from.
Your corpse is sacred. Any pthief stealing anything from your corpse is wipable. Multiplaying is wipable. Stealing from someone in a group is legal... I think anyway... but they can't do anything to intentionally cluster your group, like web or recall your tank, or put the healo to sleep.
I'm sure other can add more, but that's a decent start.
Kein Mehrheit Fur Die Mitleid -KMFDM
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by Vixn » Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:33 am
1. they could give you lots of junk to screw up your redress alias. you find yourself sitting with full set of eq in your inverntory and next moment you'll be pwned.
2. they will hide in dark places without light source. so when you gate in you will be kicked by Demo or someone like that.
3. it's hard to steal from someone (even sleeping) if there is another person in the same room who don't sleep.
just my 2 cents.
2. they will hide in dark places without light source. so when you gate in you will be kicked by Demo or someone like that.
3. it's hard to steal from someone (even sleeping) if there is another person in the same room who don't sleep.
just my 2 cents.
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by Poolp » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:03 pm
I'll elaborate more on the quit! function. Good tips so far by the way.
If a char is alive and types quit!, all items will be dropped on the floor and the person will end up at the recall point in that town. Please note that it will not be in a corpse. Many spells such as web, silence and sleep remain on when the char that has quit. The character however will not be asleep, but he/she will not be able to wake up if they went to sleep. Also note that a pthief with high str is likely to quit!, relog, squirm and get out of there before you can even get there. As soon as you see a pthief leave the game, run to the recall point if you still want to get him. Otherwise, pick the item up and run off.
If a char is dead, not boarded and types quit!, the char will corpse. Most of you might already know this. This is why at times, pthieves would actually be preferred to be killed rather than kept webbed at recall point. If a pthief is dead and not boarded, they could just quit!, relog and run straight to a safe area, and proceed to harrass new targets. The ideal situation in my idea would be to keep them webbed, if you have the time.
If a char is boarded, whether dead or not, he/she will be unable to use the quit! command.
Here's another tip about killing boarded pthieves. If a boarded pthief does not have anything good on them, I would advise you to kill them and get them raised every 4 minutes or just before they corpse. This way they are in a helpless position for a longer time, and will not be able to harrass other victims with the time they have online (assuming of course he/she does something with their real life). Continually raising them would leave them stranded in the MUD helpless until they are off the board. Plus every failed steal is 30 minutes boarded which can accumulate, so you could keep them there for a pretty long time, once again only if you have the time to do that.
Here's something pretty useful. Stealing from a player requires 2000 (I think) exp for each level the pthief has. This means if you are actually able to kill a pthief over and over and over again, your efforts are not put to waste as they will be unable to pthief until they can gather enough exp again. This may be easily fixable by using the "exchange" command, but that is only available to those at level 25 or above, so it would also help to bring them to a really low level first. If you see a pthief killing mobs and you're wondering why, just stop wondering and rescue that mob.
Lastly,
[quote="Vixn":1fklkhl0]3. it's hard to steal from someone (even sleeping) if there is another person in the same room who don't sleep.[/quote:1fklkhl0]
I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. I guess we're all learning something here eh?
If a char is alive and types quit!, all items will be dropped on the floor and the person will end up at the recall point in that town. Please note that it will not be in a corpse. Many spells such as web, silence and sleep remain on when the char that has quit. The character however will not be asleep, but he/she will not be able to wake up if they went to sleep. Also note that a pthief with high str is likely to quit!, relog, squirm and get out of there before you can even get there. As soon as you see a pthief leave the game, run to the recall point if you still want to get him. Otherwise, pick the item up and run off.
If a char is dead, not boarded and types quit!, the char will corpse. Most of you might already know this. This is why at times, pthieves would actually be preferred to be killed rather than kept webbed at recall point. If a pthief is dead and not boarded, they could just quit!, relog and run straight to a safe area, and proceed to harrass new targets. The ideal situation in my idea would be to keep them webbed, if you have the time.
If a char is boarded, whether dead or not, he/she will be unable to use the quit! command.
Here's another tip about killing boarded pthieves. If a boarded pthief does not have anything good on them, I would advise you to kill them and get them raised every 4 minutes or just before they corpse. This way they are in a helpless position for a longer time, and will not be able to harrass other victims with the time they have online (assuming of course he/she does something with their real life). Continually raising them would leave them stranded in the MUD helpless until they are off the board. Plus every failed steal is 30 minutes boarded which can accumulate, so you could keep them there for a pretty long time, once again only if you have the time to do that.
Here's something pretty useful. Stealing from a player requires 2000 (I think) exp for each level the pthief has. This means if you are actually able to kill a pthief over and over and over again, your efforts are not put to waste as they will be unable to pthief until they can gather enough exp again. This may be easily fixable by using the "exchange" command, but that is only available to those at level 25 or above, so it would also help to bring them to a really low level first. If you see a pthief killing mobs and you're wondering why, just stop wondering and rescue that mob.
Lastly,
[quote="Vixn":1fklkhl0]3. it's hard to steal from someone (even sleeping) if there is another person in the same room who don't sleep.[/quote:1fklkhl0]
I didn't know that. Thanks for the tip. I guess we're all learning something here eh?
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by *juggleblood* » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:19 am
I agree with Krom that the mechanics of the game just don't justify allowing ptheft. Just telling the players not to change eq in the open is completely contrary to the way the game actually works.
The theft of quest eq or difficult forges does nothing for the game except add an element of arbitrary cruelty. The only people who benefit from this are sociopaths who are unable to distinguish between positive and negative attention.
It also seems odd that there aren't more skills available to deter and prevent pthieving.
Some suggestions on ways the players could be allowed to pro-actively secure their valuables:
'theft ward' - cast on item, decent duration, zaps pthief and prevents successful steal. Spell must be recast after ward is triggered or duration runs out.
'spirit guardian' - like spirit watcher, requires mana upkeep, summons a spirit watcher that catches pthieves when they try to steal.
'sixth sense' - increase duration, change syntax (s e n s e conflicts with speedwalk). Perhaps allow the command 'sixth' to also work.
'perception' - remove blindness affect
'theft ward' - clasp object, attaches to any item, costs 1 drachma, temporarily stuns thief on a successful steal attempt, is destroyed when triggered. (you have to buy another one every time its used)
'web' - the spider forms for druid could be allowed to use their web ability in safe rooms like they used to
The theft of quest eq or difficult forges does nothing for the game except add an element of arbitrary cruelty. The only people who benefit from this are sociopaths who are unable to distinguish between positive and negative attention.
It also seems odd that there aren't more skills available to deter and prevent pthieving.
Some suggestions on ways the players could be allowed to pro-actively secure their valuables:
'theft ward' - cast on item, decent duration, zaps pthief and prevents successful steal. Spell must be recast after ward is triggered or duration runs out.
'spirit guardian' - like spirit watcher, requires mana upkeep, summons a spirit watcher that catches pthieves when they try to steal.
'sixth sense' - increase duration, change syntax (s e n s e conflicts with speedwalk). Perhaps allow the command 'sixth' to also work.
'perception' - remove blindness affect
'theft ward' - clasp object, attaches to any item, costs 1 drachma, temporarily stuns thief on a successful steal attempt, is destroyed when triggered. (you have to buy another one every time its used)
'web' - the spider forms for druid could be allowed to use their web ability in safe rooms like they used to
Talk to the clown.
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by Elwin » Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:12 pm
Hello
It sound like pthieving will never change, but I think this is a good suggestion so I'm going to make it anyway.
How about making only Island, Lyme and maybe AH places for pthieving. Newbies I think stick mostly to valk and BH, and lots of big groups run on BH and SS. People who hate pthieving can have safe areas to play, and there is good EQ on island and AH for pthieves to go after.
A less good but really fun idea: Have a skill to extract information from pthieves( or anyone). Call it "Mastery of Bamboo Slivers" or somthing (evil grin). Make it so somehow you can capture a pthieve and if successful extract information about his alts and recent thefts. Then pthieves can't hide behind alts necessarily and would make hunting them more fun maybe.
Also, I spent way to much time this morning in reverie after reading Krok's comment about the situation being childish. Anyone remember the neighborhood kid that coudn't fit in with the crowd, so he just hovered around and taunted the other kids playing? When they chased him to pound him he ran to his dad's yard where he knew everyone was afraid to chase? Or how about the kid who had the brand new ball that everyone wanted to play with, but he had some silly house rule that drove everyone nuts? Ah the memories.
It sound like pthieving will never change, but I think this is a good suggestion so I'm going to make it anyway.
How about making only Island, Lyme and maybe AH places for pthieving. Newbies I think stick mostly to valk and BH, and lots of big groups run on BH and SS. People who hate pthieving can have safe areas to play, and there is good EQ on island and AH for pthieves to go after.
A less good but really fun idea: Have a skill to extract information from pthieves( or anyone). Call it "Mastery of Bamboo Slivers" or somthing (evil grin). Make it so somehow you can capture a pthieve and if successful extract information about his alts and recent thefts. Then pthieves can't hide behind alts necessarily and would make hunting them more fun maybe.
Also, I spent way to much time this morning in reverie after reading Krok's comment about the situation being childish. Anyone remember the neighborhood kid that coudn't fit in with the crowd, so he just hovered around and taunted the other kids playing? When they chased him to pound him he ran to his dad's yard where he knew everyone was afraid to chase? Or how about the kid who had the brand new ball that everyone wanted to play with, but he had some silly house rule that drove everyone nuts?
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by resouh » Wed Apr 04, 2007 11:45 am
Back to my other mud for me:) No use in even contemplating quiting sloth but it seems like all the pro-pthief players are dusting off their thiefs and are getting back to business. So......since I don't want to lose any of the gold that I've been cycling or deal w/ any items being stolen that I will have to replace, I will deal w/ the situation in the best way I know how, take a break and play another mud and come back in a few weeks when it's died down.
Resouh
P.S. Poolp, ur an a$$ for the most part:) but thanks for actually giving me advice etc when I was a real newb and getting me recalled etc for a raise once when I was dead on bh a long time ago. (positive reinforcement)
Resouh
P.S. Poolp, ur an a$$ for the most part:) but thanks for actually giving me advice etc when I was a real newb and getting me recalled etc for a raise once when I was dead on bh a long time ago. (positive reinforcement)
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by Poolp » Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:10 pm
[quote="resouh":2fw5qm3c]P.S. Poolp, ur an a$$ for the most part:) but thanks for actually giving me advice etc when I was a real newb and getting me recalled etc for a raise once when I was dead on bh a long time ago. (positive reinforcement)[/quote:2fw5qm3c]
Nod, I'm quite flattered you remember. Thanks.
It's kinda sad you're leaving though, because if you're only gonna come back when this thing has died down, you should know that I've bought about 6 characters so far with the gold I got from pthieving my last time around. Have fun at your other MUD, I guess!
Nod, I'm quite flattered you remember. Thanks.
It's kinda sad you're leaving though, because if you're only gonna come back when this thing has died down, you should know that I've bought about 6 characters so far with the gold I got from pthieving my last time around. Have fun at your other MUD, I guess!
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by Jag » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:08 pm
Well this ended up as a lousy day. I cycled coins for a while, that was going well enough although we all know it is a little boring.
Ember was kind enough to provide a fishing quest. It was fun, I think I was kicking butt, but who knows. I had turned in 11 types and had 3 or four more in my sack with time to still to go in the first hour.
Stella steals my golden sack with fish in it and I think some spare recalls and milky potions. Oh yes and a magic carpet. Big whoop for her.
Guess she/he taught me another lesson. Don't try a quest where you need to keep fish in inventory. Right up there with the lesson, don't use raise eq to raise people. And all those other lessons the pthieves bring to our game. Like don't relax and have fun, don't trust anyone, don't help anyone.
Thanks Ember for trying to provide some fun. It was fun until the Pthieves got involved.
Ember was kind enough to provide a fishing quest. It was fun, I think I was kicking butt, but who knows. I had turned in 11 types and had 3 or four more in my sack with time to still to go in the first hour.
Stella steals my golden sack with fish in it and I think some spare recalls and milky potions. Oh yes and a magic carpet. Big whoop for her.
Guess she/he taught me another lesson. Don't try a quest where you need to keep fish in inventory. Right up there with the lesson, don't use raise eq to raise people. And all those other lessons the pthieves bring to our game. Like don't relax and have fun, don't trust anyone, don't help anyone.
Thanks Ember for trying to provide some fun. It was fun until the Pthieves got involved.
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by Thraxas » Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:33 pm
[quote="*Krom*":92eg5wa0]I personally find it to be a blackmark on our otherwise really good mud. It ruins the friendly, fun, comradery and laid back atmosphere of sloth. [/quote:92eg5wa0]
Me too, time to throw my teddy out of the pram, I'll see you in a few days, I may log in to say hello from time to time but I'm not playing with all the big kids out there bullying us newbies.
[quote="Jag":92eg5wa0]Don't try a quest where you need to keep fish in inventory. Right up there with the lesson, don't use raise eq to raise people. And all those other lessons the pthieves bring to our game. Like don't relax and have fun, don't trust anyone, don't help anyone.[/quote:92eg5wa0]
Couldn't agree more ... wondering if it might be time to learn how to find a new mud... I've moved mud before after investing time in chars, at some point I'll do it again no doubt.
Me too, time to throw my teddy out of the pram, I'll see you in a few days, I may log in to say hello from time to time but I'm not playing with all the big kids out there bullying us newbies.
[quote="Jag":92eg5wa0]Don't try a quest where you need to keep fish in inventory. Right up there with the lesson, don't use raise eq to raise people. And all those other lessons the pthieves bring to our game. Like don't relax and have fun, don't trust anyone, don't help anyone.[/quote:92eg5wa0]
Couldn't agree more ... wondering if it might be time to learn how to find a new mud... I've moved mud before after investing time in chars, at some point I'll do it again no doubt.
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