How you know when someone thinks your stupid.

[Medios]

Im wondering why a country like china or india would pay so much for gas just so Bush can get his friends rich at the big oil companies. I think that the price of something has to do with supply and demand moreso than the 8% that big oil is raking in. The thing about profit is that when you take a cut , the larger the number the more you make. Oil had a huge year and the industry got its rake. I mostly blame politicians for not allowing more oil refinerys, offshore and inland drilling and other technologies like coal-gasification. They all get rich on both sides at the tax payers expense. The argument of parties is a lame duck.

Mike

[12345]

Actually, it might be anonymous, but mudder does have a point. When I was in Germany about a decade ago, gas was about $3.50 a gallon after all the conversions from liters to gallons and marks to dollars. When I went on leave my parents were apalled that I was paying $1.30 a gallon without giving it a second thought. They thought it was horendously expensive, I thought it was a bargain.

We have been the largest consumer of oil for forever. I'm more inclined to believe that the increase is affected more by obsoletion of the oil for food program. But I have no hard facts for that and it may not be the case.

Anyway, the point being, the rest of the world has been dealing with prices much higher than what we have now for quite some time. Since no one in the states really cares about other countries enough to wonder what the price of gas is, we tend to have a very spoiled attitude to issues like these.

[Hades]

Sea Life takes a KO in 2048.
Don't tell Pisces.

[Roadrunr]

Actually, what is happening in China and India is unprecedented. They are going through what we went through in the 50's except that their populations combined are roughly 12x what ours was. It's not whats happening, it's the sheer scale of it.

The US may be the largest energy consumer however, when you look at the increases in China and India's consumption, it is obvious that it is having a major affect on the cost of oil. That and those damn speculators driving up the cost every time the wind blows.

And, if you dont believe that China and India are consuming vast quantities of everything, ask a plumber what's happened to the cost of copper over the last 3 years...or is that a republican conspiracy too? Just about all construction materials have skyrocketed in the past couple years. China and India are improving their standard of living and given that they account for what, 40%? of the population of the planet, how can you think that it has no affect on the cost of everything including oil?

[13]

[quote:24b9zrwg]Just about all construction materials have skyrocketed in the past couple years. [/quote:24b9zrwg]

War. We blow it up, we then pay to rebuild. It's very clever.

[alias]

Your right we didn't just go over to Iraq to fix our economy, we also went so the son could finish the job the father didn't. I feel grateful for the men and women who have volunteered to serve our country I just wish we didn't send them to die for bullshit reasons.

Yes China is using more oil and yes we don't have enough refinerys and yes corportate greed is among us, but when the US asks OPEC to cut exportation of oil because they don't want the price of gas to drop too fast whats that tell you. Its all good tho 'caue were growing lots of corn here in Indiana and our ethonal plants will be online soon. So while Ill be paying probally close to the same amout for gas or whatever at least I can help my local economy more than supporting some of the richest nations in the world that hate my guts for living.

Its true oil companys are only making around 10 percent profit but when that 10 percent equals more billions than you can really comprehend and its record amounts when is it enough?

And if the govt really wanted the economy to be strong they would influence the price of gas as it directly affects the economy. If gas is $3 a gal then people don't drive as much, have as much to spend on other things, go out to eat as much, buy newer veichles, ect.

anyway I respect your opnions on China and India using more oil but they really arent the reason were paying what we are for oil. We do need better refinerys to be able to refine the oil that we have here in our country- Since we sell almost all the oil from Alaska to Japan because it doesnt meet our standards. And the extraction of Oil from the shale in montana and huge off shore deposit in the gulf.

And yes gas is much more expensive in Europe as I was there this summer ,but they seem to deal w/ it better than we do as in much more mass transit. Things more centered to where they need to be, much less industrialization.

Well its time to go to town, so i need to get the horse and buggy ready, have fun all.

Alias

[Driven]

You misunderstood what I said. My comments were in no way an attempt to compare India and China to anyone else. My point reflects exactly what Roadrunr said... now that India and China are expanding, the levels of fossil fuels being consumed _worldwide_ is unprecedented. This is the cause of the increased gas prices... like I said, increased demand has outpaced the supply, and so gas prices have gone up.

[quote="mudder":1tfg2zd1]
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding was that USA was and is the biggest energy consumer, the biggest oil consumer and the biggest Carbon based polluter in the world, both in absolute terms as a country and on a per capita basis.

Anything India, China or anywhere else are doing isn't therefore unprecedented, and it makes me feel uneasy to hear an implication that they are to blame for the 'high' oil prices in USA, that are in fact only just over half that currently seen in Europe.[/quote:1tfg2zd1]

[Diazz_Dizazter]

[quote:3o076wce]Sea Life takes a KO in 2048.
Don't tell Pisces.
Twisted Evil[/quote:3o076wce]

The polars bears are screwed by 2070.
Don't tell the penguins.

[Driven]

[quote="alias":24sguqr7]Your right we didn't just go over to Iraq to fix our economy, we also went so the son could finish the job the father didn't. I feel grateful for the men and women who have volunteered to serve our country I just wish we didn't send them to die for bullshit reasons.[/quote:24sguqr7]

Who is now falling prey to the effect you said?-- "the people can go on and just swallow whats being fed to them"... this is pure liberal rhetoric.

[quote="alias":24sguqr7]Yes China is using more oil and yes we don't have enough refinerys and yes corportate greed is among us, but when the US asks OPEC to cut exportation of oil because they don't want the price of gas to drop too fast whats that tell you. [/quote:24sguqr7]

Just playing devil's advocate on this one, because I am not up-to-speed on this action... but perhaps the government did this to stabilize the oil industry? Significant, sudden shifts in capital can lead to de-stabilization of the industry. Typically this correlates to a loss in jobs... err, sorry, I'm a Republican, I'm not allowed to use liberal arguments against you... I take it all back. LOL.

[quote="alias":24sguqr7]
Its true oil companys are only making around 10 percent profit but when that 10 percent equals more billions than you can really comprehend and its record amounts when is it enough?[/quote:24sguqr7]

This rhetorical question "When is it enough?" concerns me as it reflects a heavily socialist attitude. Should the government also force Microsoft and Intel to forfeit half their sales to Apple? To answer your question directly, there is no limit to the absolute amount that any person, group, or industry can or should profit. Any limit that you attempt to infer through emotional pleas, suggestions, policies, or laws is just plain disgusting (barring the existence of monopolies that are exploiting the public-at-large, of course).

[quote="alias":24sguqr7]
And if the govt really wanted the economy to be strong they would influence the price of gas as it directly affects the economy. If gas is $3 a gal then people don't drive as much, have as much to spend on other things, go out to eat as much, buy newer veichles, ect. [/quote:24sguqr7]

Yea, I guess this is par for course for a Democrat. We could argue until we're blue in the face, but at the end of the day you think it's government's responsibility to control industry for the benefit of the little guy, and I think the government should, as a whole, stay out of the way of capitalism. I guess this is par for course for a Republican

[kjartan]

[quote="Diazz_Dizazter":12i9mc9v][quote:12i9mc9v]Sea Life takes a KO in 2048.
Don't tell Pisces.
Twisted Evil[/quote:12i9mc9v]

The polars bears are screwed by 2070.
Don't tell the penguins.[/quote:12i9mc9v]
Governments worldwide will crumble under the onslaught of the ensuing penguin bloom, led by [url=http://www.outgribe.com/jason/penguin.jpg:12i9mc9v]this guy[/url:12i9mc9v] and, if current trends are any indication, [url=http://www.outgribe.com/jason/tux.jpg:12i9mc9v]this guy too[/url:12i9mc9v].

[12345]

One of the basics of the economy is that there's never any more money, just a change in circulation. Ie. if your country exports more money than it imports, you're eventually going to have to do something to get it back or you'll simply run out of money.

The advantage of ethanol is that it keeps the money from being exported. Considering the huge amounts of fuel we consume, I'd rather give it to the farmers who have historically had a pretty rough time of it than some shiek who's purchasing custom made islands. Also, since the farmers have had a rough time of it, they're much more likely to return that money to the economy for circulation. Either way, oil will theoretically run out someday and I can plant corn for the better part of forever.

But yes, I agree that continually finding reasons to give money to other countries is a very poor solution to... anything. Especially when that requires sacrificing some of your own citizens to do so.

[Vixn]

What's the current gas price in America? I have it at about 2,88$ per gallon here in Russia and as I know Russians have enough oil to cover our domestic needs. Other words we don't buy oil from other countries and don't grow so fast like China and India - so I don't understand why do you think $2-$3 is unfair price.

[alias]

Here I go making friends again....


Sorry should have been clearer its not the price of gas I object to its the way its controlled.

If you wanna talk about making laws about emotional pleas being disgusting lets talk about abortion....shall we mr republican?

and fyi microsoft owns shares of apple and apple now uses intel chips.
And I dont ever recall anyone ever telling me the sad story of billy who lost his job because the price of gas went down too fast.
And since when did you not think the oil companies arent a monolopy (opec ?)

Are you a fan of the trickle down theory? where the wealth is poured on the rich and then it trickels down to the poor? guess what my friend it doesnt work. Ive been on both ends of it, rich and poor.
Hmm I do think I recall govt regulating business... I think it was called
"ma bell" ever hear of it. And I do recall govt fining microsoft a million dollars a day because of their business practice - so dont tell me that govt doesnt regulate business, they just pick and choose which ones to regulate depending on who is in office at the current time. and no I wish there were less govt but the problem is Republicans have made more govt than we had before. I don't expect to change your opnion of things but I hope your rich otherwise your sorely misled as to what the republican party is about. And sense Im damn liberal Ill just go drink my booze and then take a nap.

I have an opnion that can be changed by a compelling argument, but you don't have one.

Nov 7th Ill see you at the polls and hopefully send a message to the republicans that 3 day work weeks in congress dont cut it.



p.s. I'm a registered Republican. just thought you might want to know.

Alias

[Weasel]

hey, I'm all for 3 day work weeks! - and I'm not even a politician..

[kjartan]

[quote="12345":324ncs7j]One of the basics of the economy is that there's never any more money, just a change in circulation. Ie. if your country exports more money than it imports, you're eventually going to have to do something to get it back or you'll simply run out of money.[/quote:324ncs7j]

So, logically if there is never any more money, then a thousand years ago when there were 1/20 as many people they must have all been super-rich! Man, I wish I could have lived back then. (I tried to just let that one go without mocking you but that apparently would require a better man than me.)