Random complaints

[Thraxas]

not sure how the rules work on this one but lets give it a go:

Acedia -6
Shyla +2
Splork +1
Indomniac +1
Thraxas +1
reboog -8
Did I miss anyone out? is there some sort of exam I was supposed to make these posters sit to work out the marks?

As an aside to the above that seems to be the main purpose of this thread now:

I'd agree with Splork that necros are not badly coded, however like many things could be better (not a criticism more either a statement of the bleeding obvious / an observation)

My view is that not letting pets split xp dosent make sense to which I've presented my view and supported this view with cogent arguement (rather than nonsensical ranting ... please try to follow suit in future Acedia)

I'd also agree front and back row is a huge and not to be underrated improvement over gt PROT BACK ALL >>>> gt hold PROTS not fixed >>>> gt check prots all >>>> group cr ... someone died and prots werent fixed. Its a huge huge improvement, but not perfect ... shyla does however make a very valid point that now we all have man back scripts coded and the process of manning back is taken care of entirely by clients it adds nothing to game beyond random deaths on stumble ... man back lag for a healer is annoying esp if they're the only healer ... man back lag for a leader is perhaps more problematic ...

I can think of a few different approachs to solving the problems shyla raises ... maybe a 3rd row where no melee damage can be done, but dosent affect the front / back balance so lowbies can join without dying, maybe balance front and back on total levels rather than number of players, maybe maybe lots of things but there is no getting away from the fact that its far better than 'Prot Back Please ... running check prots',

Do I think I'm the only person with a valid view? No. Do I think one of the above is the only solution? No. Do I think something needs to be done? Not really. Do I expect anything to change? No. Thats not a problem to me.

The pet xp split issue, yes I hold the view that it makes no sense for pets not to split xp, but so what, if they dont then sometimes necros will gain more xp than they should on a single kill and upset a group deprived of its due it dosent happen often and despite using pets often in groups I've never once stolen a kill with my pets in anything other than 2 man ... I know other players have more frequently but still not often ... go figure.

When a topic of current interest gets raised, and views are posted on the crier I've always disliked the way that these views are flamed as whining and the topic hijacked by stupidity as though doing so is a winning arguement rather than mindless and needless drivel.

Indeed yes flame me back, call me a whiner, tell me I'm not allowed to hold or shouldnt express these views on the crier, hijack the thread to continue the heal and hurt poll, thats far more fun and productive than actually having a view of your own.

Thraxas

[*Splork*]

Yes, pets stealing experience is intentional. Changing this would require about one minute of a coder's time but like I said, this is a balancing issue and will not be changed. The repercussions of necromancer pets in groups has the desired effect which we( administrators ) are looking for. There may be other ways to control the issue as well but we are not willing to experiment with an issue which we feel works exactly as we intend it to and does an extremely efficient job preventing problems which we do not want to become issues in regards to necromancers and grouping.

Front/Back row fighting is not perfect but its much better than the previous system. I'm sure we will continue to make changes and adjustments, as we see fit regarding this topic.

Splork

[*Chobbs*]

@Thraxas

Letting necro pets split exp, their main drawback, and then you no longer really need group members (hm! Why are necros such reputed soloers! Must be their dashing good looks). Just swell your group's ranks with necro pets. And now that everyone's a necro, the army size will be monstrous, not to mention the time it'll take to coordinate everyone trying to summon largely superfluous pets. And there's still that fun 8 undead limit before they start bickering/disengaging, but I'm sure that will be the next whine folks will complain about. Either that or whine that the regen after summoning pets is too long. Or pets are too weak. Or that they looked at you funny. I miss the days of eq groups where exp didn't matter and all that mattered was making the mob dead.

"No exp split on necro pets" I find is a wise decision that makes some certain large fights more exciting. Like the self-chop proc on choppers, they help break the tedium of the grind. I relish the tension when using pets in large groups, namely when the mob's at ph or awful. "Hm! How long will I play chicken with this mob? Should I wait before fleeing pets? Will I survive? Just one more round... argh! Tick coming! Should I spam order followers flee or guts? Maybe winds! Or I can cap horribly and be ostracized for a few mobs! Decisions!" It was even more fun when tackling monstrous epics and quest mobs, since the stakes were that much higher. Good times.

When you look beyond your own character and at the game as a whole, it really is a non issue. For such a dramatic increase in sustained chop power, not to mention the hp buffer, the one drawback is that you might not get x amount of experience. For ONE kill. Fine, let's say TWO. Or THREE! *shocking gasp!* (thank you rose colored glasses!) Out of how many? Not like the imms gave us things like, I dunno, deathblow, or high damage spells with oodles of +spellbonus, or strikes, stomps, broadsides, circle stabs with a heap of +damage, or the ability to flee pets (with a comparable failure to order chance akin to losing concentration on spells), or simply banishing them, to reduce the chances of this happening.

So I rather like the no split on pet kills (a differing opinion! *shocking gasp!*). I've lost hundreds of millions of exp to it, but so what? Should I whine about it, or get over it and move on?

Seems like cogent arguments to me. Also nice how she even responded to the other replies as well, discussing the ideas presented by others and addressing them in a fairly roundabout (if not heavily sarcastic) manner.

Acedia +7

When a topic of current interest gets raised, and views are posted on the crier I've always disliked the way that these views are flamed as whining and the topic hijacked by stupidity as though doing so is a winning arguement rather than mindless and needless drivel.

Indeed yes flame me back, call me a whiner, tell me I'm not allowed to hold or shouldnt express these views on the crier, hijack the thread to continue the heal and hurt poll, thats far more fun and productive than actually having a view of your own.

When the thread is named "random complaints", it's hard not to view it as whining.

Seems to me that she is trying to present a different viewpoint, but you flame her for doing so, saying in effect "Oh, you don't remember things right. I know how things were. You're hijacking this thread! You should be complaining!"

And hijacking the thread with this martyr act as if doing so is a winning argument isn't a very good discussion tactic nor particularly productive. It's usually a last ditch plea, the whole "I have nothing else to discuss, so I'm going for overdramatic rhetoric instead!" sort of deal. I know you have more ideas to discuss, so please present those instead.

No one's even slightly hinted at telling you that you shouldn't express your own ideas; I'm not really sure where the folks here are even getting this from. All I read is "Stop whining about non-issues/be more civil about when addressing others". If you (not addressing you in particular Thraxas) can't do either of these things, then I can see how this would be a problem.

@Everyone else
Anyways, at the crux of this non-issue,

The pet xp split issue, yes I hold the view that it makes no sense for pets not to split xp, but so what, if they dont then sometimes necros will gain more xp than they should on a single kill and upset a group deprived of its due it dosent happen often and despite using pets often in groups I've never once stolen a kill with my pets in anything other than 2 man ... I know other players have more frequently but still not often ... go figure.

So let me get this straight.
1. Pets are already used frequently in groups.
2. You boast about never stealing a kill in a large group.
3. Other folks might steal, "but still, not often"

So... what's the problem?

At the risk of not presenting a "cogent arguement" [sic], I will say that personally (speaking for me, not for any other immortal/the immortal staff), when folks whine, I am quite disinclined to answer. I watched as mug spammed increasingly vulgar pages to the immortals, threatening to continue to do so unless he got his 10 drachma. I myself had just gotten back from work, and didn't even know drachma was even handed out. Since I didn't know what was going on, and based on the tone, had no interest in getting involved, I must be an evil imm.

This tactics complaint of Shyla's is nothing new; she's brought this and other whinings up so many times before I must admit I have started to tune her out. Each time, she's told essentially what Splork said in his reply in this thread. "The vast majority of the mud believes this is much better than the old system. The administration believes it is much better." But like most whiners, if they don't get what they want, they just keep at it until someone eventually acquiesces out of exasperation. There are countless bugs, complaints, whinings, whatever have you, that are constantly addressed quite frequently [see 95% of Isabo's posts], but they brought to attention in a civil manner and through the proper channels. That and they're often not as publicized (not everyone's this whiny).

Anyways, you have gotten your response Shyla, two even! The immortals have not ignored you. So please stop acting like some martyr. I stand with Splork on both counts: that necro pets and all pets should not split exp, ever, and that tactics is a vast improvement.

Like Acedia said, whining/complaining is not constructive criticism. Please don't get the two mixed up. Thanks.

Chobbs

[reboog]

Acedia +8

[Mug]

At the risk of not presenting a "cogent arguement" [sic], I will say that personally (speaking for me, not for any other immortal/the immortal staff), when folks whine, I am quite disinclined to answer. I watched as mug spammed increasingly vulgar pages to the immortals, threatening to continue to do so unless he got his 10 drachma. I myself had just gotten back from work, and didn't even know drachma was even handed out. Since I didn't know what was going on, and based on the tone, had no interest in getting involved, I must be an evil imm

I apologize for being increasingly vulgar as you said but I was pretty mad.
i was there for kill, i kept 5 attacks up at 24 hand damage,I tossed guards
in other words i did my freaking part and did not see why i could not get my drachma or even a response. I was a good follower and turned off autoloot like asked and just cause i lagged on leader recalling after looting drachma i missed split WTF. If i would have looted recalled w/o group and stole drachma You immorts would have probably took the drachma away from me, deleveled me, and made sure all in group got there drachma. that is bs I WAS there I HELPED KILL.
and for the record {I watched as mug spammed increasingly} i spammed 3 pages to the immorts total iirc

[Shyla]

I was pissed when I wrote this and the truth of the matter is I should have wrote it but never hit send button and I realize I was stupid for doing it and I apologize. In that note, I would like to ask that this subject be deleted and If no one can delete it I would ask that it be ignored and not posted to anymore. I am starting up a new thread called changes that have been made that we love and trust me the list is HUGE
please post there and let the immorts know what they do isn't in vain and that we can post more than just negative
HUGS
Shyla the every will be whiner

[reboog]

Acedia +9

[*Breeze*]

Thread Locked.

And fwiw I miss so much drachma doing behind the scenes stuff you wouldn't believe it

// Q