Mansion of the mourned changed?

[Gimlet]

yup splork i know the reasoning behind changing up mansion a little

thing is it's made more annoying now more than anything

Mike (minstrel) brought up a good point today

Mansion is run primarily by mages who are at least level 40

Us mages have 4 or 5 mirrors at lvl 40, these give us a real high chance of bailing a fight that isn't going down well.

Still, I died 20over times last week (or was it the week before) so I don't think it's quite as skewed

So now it's better to run areas recklessly rather than safely? I'll make sure I die a few times every week at whatever area i find good to kill in now, just so the areastats don't get skewed! kidding


Just out of curiosity, why is the "official policy" of the mud admin to encourage grouping? Ppl will group no matter what, because most of them are probably lazy and want fast xp. End result are ppl dying in areas they shouldn't be dying in.

[Bennett]

Turns out soloing is not such a good idea anyway. Hive did me in. I think I'm done.

[Atwell]

[quote="Thraxas":14gh997t]Looking at some groups I'd say that for most the time at least half the group is breaking rule 4 ... seems its not enforced for groups, worst that happens is a player is recalled ... perhaps I can similarly break rule 4 while soloing ... both are equally wrong but if I did and was found out I'd be wiped.
(Not asking for permission to bot ... just pointing out an aspect of the discrimination against soloists that exists)[/quote:14gh997t]

In S3, a leader's botting accusation normally meant "You're not doing your job, whether you're an automaton or just a human contributing poorly." Your contention seems to be in that spirit; it's hard to imagine that S4 suddenly attracted numerous people busily writing scripts to automate the bulk of their group duties. Being lazy or afk in a group is not itself a rules violation, and it's also something that players can punish quite well on their own.

That said, hypothetical enforcement would vary. Group automata span the continuum from 'auto-assist" on up, but a plausible solo bot would be at least two orders of magnitude more complex. Solo bots would never toe the border land of legality like a group bot can do.

[jezer]

[quote="Bennett":3e0b71id]Turns out soloing is not such a good idea anyway. Hive did me in. I think I'm done.[/quote:3e0b71id]

Bennett, your class order seems absolutely perfect for nailing hive. Talk to me in game sometime and I'll help ya out.

[*juggleblood*]

Solo xp has always been less that group xp. When you add people, the total xp goes up, but the difficulty goes down. I've always thought the idea behind this was to push people to be social and interact in big groups.

Personally, I like small groups or solo. I'm glad solo xp was raised. But honestly I think it's the bigger open xp groups that keep our numbers up. If there was no group xp bonus, people would be more selective about who they group with and it would be harder for noobs to break into groups.

I don't really like how the xp groups zoom people past the early levels. I like the low level areas. I think they're very fun and playable. But lots of players just soak up xp from the xp groups and never bother with the low level areas. What's the perfect balance? I don't know.

[Gimlet]

agreed juggs

it's too easy to soak up xp in those bigass xp groups

and most ppl care too much about getting xp fast, to bother teaching the new players much

which is why i chose to solo when this new version of sloth came out

I led tons in sl3, and mostly joined groups...and I realised how little i know about the mud or mudding in general

it's kinda funny to see how some 3x40,4x40 characters just sitting aroud at the in or well when there aren't xp goups going around. Been goign aroud poking my nose into ppl's weekly stats and it's sad that some people don't even bother to play when there aren't groups running

[Gimlet]

[quote="Atwell":3afvgymz]

In S3, a leader's botting accusation normally meant "You're not doing your job, whether you're an automaton or just a human contributing poorly." Your contention seems to be in that spirit; it's hard to imagine that S4 suddenly attracted numerous people busily writing scripts to automate the bulk of their group duties. Being lazy or afk in a group is not itself a rules violation, and it's also something that players can punish quite well on their own.[/quote:3afvgymz]

Actually, the imms defined "botting" as gaining exp while not being physically at the keyboard or playing your character. Whether you have a script up to kill mobs automated or are just ebing afk while in a group doesn't matter.

I remember that a char once got wiped because she went afk midgroup to send her kids up the schoolbus (or so she claimed)

I've always kept a lookout for people who don't do anything while the group is running, either jut standing there while ppl are fighting mobs, or not using their mana at all. Despite the numerous times I brought it up to either a leader or imm, nothing was done, I was even told to STFU by leaders

It's funny how some people react adversely to dying. Dying bothers me very little to be honest. I'll just learn (hopefully) not to make the same mistakes.

But it seems now that learning an area well enough to not die in it brings about changes to the area?

[blackmore]

[quote="Gimlet":1s96sf18]
But it seems now that learning an area well enough to not die in it brings about changes to the area?[/quote:1s96sf18]
I've never understood why changing an area that's clearly out of line with other areas is wrong. There's a mob in Mansion that gives me more xp in 1 kill than I can get in most areas in a full run - and I didn't have to learn it, I walk into its room while lit and I blast it.

You said you're soloing this time around to learn the mud, but you're admittedly squatting on 1 area and running it to death. If you're able to get such good xp in that area, and you are able to run it without dying because you spent the time to learn it, then find another area even close to being comparable. If it wasn't out of balance, then there should be other areas that you're able to run and get similar xp.

With your logic, you should be able to camp out in any area, run it to death without getting killed, and the immorts would change it. It would be something fun to try. Do it in sky elves, where the xp is insanely low already, just to see if it gets changed.

[jezer]

The upper limit of my solo runs is about 4m (a lucky olympus run). I can get that in 3 mobs in a group... why should I solo for xp when I am so weak... simple equation for players not running mansion? hehe.

With prongs and terra's cut... you'd have to raise solo xp by several times to even interest me at the moment. I sure am glad Toxis and Rogue are around to get me out of the early caster blues. Toxis is a good leader, but I think he claims a bit of the credit for his wife... and you can't do good xp with out a good tank whose nearly always there when he leads like Rogue. So they are a good team.

I will have to improve my grip to about 20 damage, or my mana by over 200, and gain 4x40-5x40 shift forms before I can even get close to doing what a group does in 3 mobs.

At avatar on s3 I could run more xp solo than BH xp. I guess we will have to wait and see what it's like now.

In general less than 3x40 players (exclude thieves/mages) are pretty weak, and I'm afraid 80-150k solo mobs isn't good enough. But that's about all we can do to use the full duration of our sancts and mana for the longest xp period. Sure we can kill 1.5m mobs... but we have to regen, and most 400k mobs hurt too much or take to long.

Might I point out... group xp is even higher these days, because we can get cheap levels to boost our totals in another 4 classes. I'm not quite 3x40 but I don't remember getting as much xp from groups as what I do now.

[color=red:3or7uodv]For me the gap between solo and group has never been greater - this is my overall point[/color:3or7uodv] - in all my time on sloth. Looking forward to monking on lyme, I am banking on the fact I can run solo here, pity you nerfed the heck out of my mobs.

I don't see Thraxas in groups, so it's a bit cheap to moan about it, but I think there point is valid. Poit joins when he can/wants to, which is a wise choice in my opinion.

You might have raised solo xp, and I'm a fan of the work Juggleblood does to fix most poor areas, but it seems you raised xp on mostly crap areas and nerfed the heck out of my old favourites.

How is a mage going to get solo xp on lyme any more? Fight over Necropolis?

Areas I applaud the changes in are Hive, Underdark, Dark Chasm these areas are back in vogue in my opinion.

I honestly expect the solo situation to get better as I get more powerful, but honestly immortals... right now it's the worst it's ever been for me on this game to solo xp. It's a < 4x40 kind of problem mainly, it will get better, this is an observation, not a whine, I'm afraid grouping is way too good at the moment to be disappointed. So good, I have to loan money each day to pay for levels... can ya do something about group coins?

[Gimlet]

[quote="blackmore":1vs9vs3l]I've never understood why changing an area that's clearly out of line with other areas is wrong. There's a mob in Mansion that gives me more xp in 1 kill than I can get in most areas in a full run - and I didn't have to learn it, I walk into its room while lit and I blast it.

You said you're soloing this time around to learn the mud, but you're admittedly squatting on 1 area and running it to death. If you're able to get such good xp in that area, and you are able to run it without dying because you spent the time to learn it, then find another area even close to being comparable. If it wasn't out of balance, then there should be other areas that you're able to run and get similar xp.

With your logic, you should be able to camp out in any area, run it to death without getting killed, and the immorts would change it. It would be something fun to try. Do it in sky elves, where the xp is insanely low already, just to see if it gets changed.[/quote:1vs9vs3l]


if you'd get your head out of your bunghole and actually see what I solo in, you'll know that I don't squat in mansion.

I already said I'm all for changes, but this "change" is just a lazy and sloppy way of getting people to die

[Thraxas]

[quote="jezer":1rqdjoov]I don't see Thraxas in groups, so it's a bit cheap to moan about it, but I think there point is valid. Poit joins when he can/wants to, which is a wise choice in my opinion.
[/quote:1rqdjoov]

My point is I dont really like being in groups (... so why should I join? For the common good perhaps?) My objection is that I'm forced to join groups to get xp at a reasonable rate ... actually right at the moment I just not joining groups and therefore havent levelled in a month.

Calling me cheap for not playing the aspects of the game I dont enjoy is just well typically jezer ... enjoy

T

[Ezekiel]

I agree the area may have needed changes, but making it a death trap by spawning 4 aggro hunting mobs across 9 rooms probably isn't the best way...reduce mob xp and give credit to those who know the area well and want to continue to run area. If it isn't as profitable, they will run other areas as well. Just because ppl make killer xp in an area and they don't die doesn't mean you need to necessarily force deaths...just means you need to find a way to allow them to run it without the extreme benefit of unbalanced xp.

[*juggleblood*]

[quote="Thraxas":2252y3hg][quote="
My point is I dont really like being in groups (... so why should I join? For the common good perhaps?) My objection is that I'm forced to join groups to get xp at a reasonable rate ... actually right at the moment I just not joining groups and therefore havent levelled in a month.
T[/quote:2252y3hg]


I'm with you on this one. I'm not a fan of following the xp train either. It's just a necessary evil on sloth.

The group xp multiplier is a pretty core aspect of the game. I don't imagine this will ever change.

Maybe it detracts from gameplay, for the reasons you said. But I really believe that withouth this feature, our playerbase would shrivel up and die. A lot of people log on, look to see if anything interesting is going on, and if not, log off.

We're perfectly willing to entertain suggestions on how areas can be improved to be more playable. The mansion change isn't part of an effort to nerf solo xp. It's an effort to balance out the areas. How can we improve other areas, if the players insist on camping out on a select few. Left unchecked it gets to the point where players are fighting with each other over a few areas while the rest sit empty. And it's hard to improve the other areas without player feedback.

[Gimlet]

despite having solo'ed mostly in mansion the past few weeks, I do hate camping in an area, which is why I've been sailing aroud the continents looking for areas to kill in. I've also been killing quite a bit lately in air/water/earth/fire planes, and necropolis on lyme.

I've lost several hundreds of millions from dying in mansion, so I don't see how it's as safe as it was made out to be. It is still a highly profitable area in terms of xp I do admit.

I suggest making the centiworms "patrol" like the patrol in xanth, instead of having them hunt. spawning several hunting aggro mobs in a confined space of 4 rooms IS a deathtrap.

The "problem" with the old mansion was that much of the mobs attacks in there can be countered with spells. Most of the mobs haev only 2 attacks, so having mirrors up makes it such that if the battle lasts less than 2 rounds, the mob usually doesn't do much damage to me. Some mobs firewind, that can easily be countered with elemental resistance and spellshield. Although reflection seems not to work on any of the mob blasts in mansion.

Mattimeo's xp (about 2.7mil if you've killed the area a few times, about 4mil if it's eben up for a while) is excessive. It's easily taken down in 3-4 bolts, and if I go in with near full hp, all mirros up and spellshield, it hurts me but doesn't bring me near death.

If the imms decided that the danger level in mansion has to be brought inline with the rest of the mud, then change it according to how the rest of the mud is dangerous. Splork mentioned that even BH town has a higher level of death rate, but I don't see hunting aggro mobs that swarm on BH.

I suggest reducing the number of centiworms in there to maybe 2, and tweaking the mobs that seem to boost the xp in there. For the longest time I avoided killing mattimeo, and I suspect some lower lvl mages who kill in there do avoid mattimeo and perhaps murdering mind. The xp on the rest of the mobs aren't really out of line with xp in other mage areas, so to make it such that a lower lvl char can't kill in there because a higher lvl char can easily make xp in there isn't fair to the lowbies.

Perhaps the mobs that give higher xp can be placed in an "extension" to the mansion or the 2nd part past the closet. Hence if anyone wants the boosted xp, they have to deal with the dangers that come in that part of the mansion. Or make mattimeo call on/spawn/summon centiworms only if u try to kill it.

Making the area a deathtrap regardless of whether u were even capable of gaining the obscene xp that has been publicized there, is unfair.

Truth is, even if all the mobs there were worth 400k-800k I'd still kill in there coz there just aren't that many mage areas to kill in at lower levels.

[Shyla]

this has nothing to do with mansion of the mourned but speaking of areas where tweaking might be nice.. Undead city on ss with those 2 stupid ambushing vampires that you can't kill but kill you very fast is getting to be very ridiculous. I wanted to teach someone a spell and couldn't even find a way to deal with them. I used to be able to toss them and they used to be a couple of winds to kill them. Somewhere they got bumped up so bad that most people can't even mess with that area b/c of the 2 of them. Shrug just my 2 cents.

Shyla