The trouble with valk...

[Rynquald]

Thieves seem to be a difficult class to balance (for the record, I'm not saying they're necessarially unbalanced atm). If they're nerfed just a little, they rapidly loose their usefulness, while a small buff is enough to throw their xp runs into the stratosphere. Imo, it stems from the obvious "all or nothing" nature of stabbing.

Say for example a two man, thief/blaster group with no tank to absorb damage, if the mob splorks, it's essentially a free kill. If the mob dies on blasting before the first round, it's extremely good value. But if the mob lives to deliver hits, a run can be slowed down significantly.

Aside from all the suggestions of broken game mechanics. I'm tending to believe that the growing xp is due more to increasing refinement of playstyles than anything else. When I was levelling my first char, It was normal enough to top (or come close to the top) the weekly xp list with a 2b week, and those weeks weren't easy. Arguably, few game mechanics have been drastically changed since then, and people are beginning to run xp near the tens of billions.

Perhaps Sloth needs a difficulty boost at a fundamental level?

And no, I have no idea how that could be done, but it's a theory

[jezer]

[quote:3ji7prqn]Arguably, few game mechanics have been drastically changed since then, and people are beginning to run xp near the tens of billions. [/quote:3ji7prqn]

You mean Sa, and the reason is Cizin, Sneaky, Stormshadow and Ben (thieves). Yes, I don't remember much changing with the thief class in my stay here, and I think 10bills is possible only because Sa plays probably 6-8 hrs a day. A "luxury?" most don't have.

It's too late to change some things about sloth... because nerfs tend to crush people's spirits... however sloth IV is good cause for wide sweeping changes, bring it on

Here's a radical idea... how about going open source with the sloth source code, keep the area files private... let people submit code changes for approval to our immortals, who seem to be around less and less. After a bunch of months... release sloth IV. Extend the life of this awesome game which is probably going to die with it's current generation of players.

Who cares if people start there own server... no loss of revenue... and the idiots that do this, won't have dedication to write good area's anyways. (Highlighted by the fact, they stole code in the first place...)

Dreams are free, I know. I don't have the dedication to write an area at the moment, although I have planned one... I would however fix those flaming shift bugs in hours... something with all due respect, is currently taking years.

[angel]

chuckle
i rack up xp with a pal for playing long hours and we should get nerfed.
nice prospective however u want the mud to be nerfed, we would still be on the top of the xp list for playing a certain amount of hours.So i cycle most of my forges n eqs n get them in way shorter period than others because i play more often. nerf that too
i also rack the gold up for the week when i want to,nerf that too
i also top the death list,this i recon u shud nerf

if u guys want better results, just work for it. quit yer yapping and enjoy the game for gods sake...we play it cause we enjoy it. u want a perfect mud,go make ur own.

[Rynquald]

Sa is indeed the most spectacular example, because he maintains hard xp runs longer than anyone else has. But on a per-hour basis, anyone that knows how to handle stab/blast can match it. Frankly, I should know, I've been taking advantage of high speed stab/blast xp for a long while.

Perhaps a point I should have made is that in the past, people (yes, including me) were playing for comparable periods of time, but still weren't matching the xp, whether you look at it per-hour or total.

[quote="Sa":1rl83udl]if u guys want more better results, just work for it. quit yer yapping and enjoy the game for gods sake...we play it cause we enjoy it. u want a perfect mud,go make ur own.[/quote:1rl83udl]

At the risk of sounding antagonistic, a discussion revolving around game balance does not equal complaining. And believe me, people have been "working for it" for a long time.

[angel]

[quote="Rynquald":1drcmryq]
At the risk of sounding antagonistic, a discussion revolving around game balance does not equal complaining. And believe me, people have been "working for it" for a long time.[/quote:1drcmryq]

im sure ppl have been "working for it", its all part of the fun id say:) well, if those complainin want better results,work harder

Chrome leads fast stab xps per hr,maybe faster than i do,but he does play way less compared to me.. im not out there to prove that i make the best use of my time..im just there to have fun.plus running fast is tiring
i like this mud cause u can work for something you want and earn it in a way.
some gets to play longer n some shorter,all in all its still fun

anyways how did this valk thing turn into top xp per week?:)

[Gimlet]

[quote="jezer":2ghyptd9]
You mean Sa, and the reason is Cizin, Sneaky, Stormshadow and Ben (thieves). Yes, I don't remember much changing with the thief class in my stay here, and I think 10bills is possible only because Sa plays probably 6-8 hrs a day. A "luxury?" most don't have.
[/quote:2ghyptd9]

people reach 10bil a week coz they figure out how to play the game instead of crying to the board every other minuite about how the game isn't fair to them. I reckoned if you use the time u spend posting crap on the crier, and actually played, u'd hit 50bil a week easy

[Roadrunr]

[quote="jezer":3ubinzoe]

Here's a radical idea... how about going open source with the sloth source code, keep the area files private... let people submit code changes for approval to our immortals, who seem to be around less and less. After a bunch of months... release sloth IV. Extend the life of this awesome game which is probably going to die with it's current generation of players.

Who cares if people start there own server... no loss of revenue... and the idiots that do this, won't have dedication to write good area's anyways. (Highlighted by the fact, they stole code in the first place...)

Dreams are free, I know. I don't have the dedication to write an area at the moment, although I have planned one... I would however fix those flaming shift bugs in hours... something with all due respect, is currently taking years.[/quote:3ubinzoe]

problem with this. I doubt it would be too hard to write in some massive benefit to you or your buddies that could get missed by the reviewing imm, then all of a sudden you get a huge boost for free, plus, the imms like control of what fixes/changes are made (and I dont blame them).

as for alternate servers being set up by people, at this point, if they have the base code with all the areas, they've got one hell of a start. thus far, I dont think anyone has managed to keep a sloth clone running because their initial ambition is high but their dedication is not.

And finally, on the count of Sloth IV. I'd have to say, tha day that comes is probably the day I'm gone for good. I realize that I'm not here that often anymore but I just dont have the time or ambition to start fresh again. I've got 4 chars left, 3 are lymers and into avatar levels, Ana probably hasnt leveled in 2 years, Xander in over a year and for some strange reason I started another tank type that isnt even 2x40 yet (and may never get there for all I know).

As for fixing vk xp for groups. only way I know to fix that would be to make it based on straight levels. dont know if it could be done thaty if you're on vk it works that way or not. best way to get a newbie xp is to get them into a large off vk xp group...sure, the per kill xp may not be spectacular but the long runs and volume of kills makes up for it.

[Weasel]

[quote="jezer":rglfmpfu]You mean Sa, and the reason is Cizin, Sneaky, Stormshadow and Ben (thieves). Yes, I don't remember much changing with the thief class in my stay here, and I think 10bills is possible only because Sa plays probably 6-8 hrs a day. A "luxury?" most don't have.[/quote:rglfmpfu] I'd imagine it's a whole lot more than 6-8 hours a day.. try 15+.. at least it seems that way - I log on at very sporadic times, and I've never not seen Sa on, no matter what time of night or day it is. Sa you're an extreme addict lol! Or else there's more than one person playing Sa, but not that I'm aware of.

[angel]

im in australia,i have no TV!
i just mud n mud n mud. im bored...
theres just 1 person playing sa 99% of the time

[jezer]

[quote="Roadrunr":ogmz9qma]problem with this. I doubt it would be too hard to write in some massive benefit to you or your buddies that could get missed by the reviewing imm, then all of a sudden you get a huge boost for free, plus, the imms like control of what fixes/changes are made (and I dont blame them).[/quote:ogmz9qma]

Yes, releasing the source without the area files, and then having the team approve admissions... could EPICALLY fail. But it could also work... I mean go to sourceforge and freshmeat, community projects really can work. There is no reason either that sloth 3 couldn't continue to run concurrent. I'm merely putting out there and idea that would keep sloth going longer. (The player base is in a small decline again... it's been fairly ok though the past 2 months)

As for players putting in what they want to make them powerful... this is why the admin filter admissions. By the way... there is a bug that can get me a -13ac Piasa at 5x40... now combine that with wraithform... and 900 mana... you can be insanely overpowered in the current source. I've informed a bunch of immortals but the bug is still there.

People often say that if the source code is public, it can be abused... But it's actually quite the opposite if you have keen people working with it, the bugs get found and fixed even faster. I know it's hush hush, but it's really no secret that old copies of the sloth source code are around... If this is the case, the possibility to abuse the code has already been around since the leak. So the "problem" is just as real now, and it's obvious that it doesn't have a huge effect.

I know it's not going to happen... but it COULD be done and it's success would be proportional to the ATTITUDE of those who make it happen. I know I'm a dreamer and a perfectionist... just like some others are scum and resistant to change/set in there ways. But lets keep it about the game, and it's just an idea.

[Gimlet]

people aren't resistant to change, they're just sick of you thinking everything should be fixed to suit the way u want to mud

[Weasel]

Who you calling scum, m0therfutter?

[Tap]

You know who else likes change?
[img:2bte7os2]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/5852/obamabidenom4.jpg[/img:2bte7os2]

[13]

atwell :}

[*juggleblood*]

I'm really not sure what you're on about Jezer. But I think you're talking about what a hard slow climb it is to quad 20?

One solution for that problem would be to make tri-tokens work until 40 prime. It used to be such that anyone could pick up a tri. But they added that proc to it and suddenly you have all these 20 20 20 x chars running around.