nerf thread

[Rynquald]

[quote="Atwell":2uios1fg]Masterful blindnesses disappeared more recently, say in the last three months. I haven't performed any rigorous testing, but I never see them anymore, despite their historical abundance.[/quote:2uios1fg]

...

Bleah.

[jezer]

I think the real problem is unbalanced CLASSO not CLASSES.

For example...

Person X - Classo Order - A, B, C, D
Person Y - Classo Order - D, C, B, A (Reversed Order)

Class A rocks prime, sucks at lower position
Class B if not prime is not much different at 2nd 3rd 4th
Class C yada yada
Class D yada yada

So if an Imm, tries to depower Person X because he realises they are overpowered, if the imm does this in a wrong way... person Y gets a real short end of the stick, because it's there last class and it sucked anyway and it feels like a double nerf!

That is to say... some primes in certain classo's are more powerful than others... when ever you try to balance one class, you end up unbalancing someone else class order, who has that class. I have thief third on Jezer... believe me... it sucks!

So we go tic for tac, debuffs and buffs to classo's and skills, annoying everyone in the process.

Time to sit back and do some planning! As one of my old teachers used to say... [b:1pkuwq0u]1 hours hacking can save 5 minutes planning![/b:1pkuwq0u]

You need to balance the abilities of each class first... but then you have to make sure that they balance in comparison with each other in positions 2, 3 and 4 AS WELL!

Of cause it's going to seem like a Cleric, Bard, Necro, Druid is underpowered... but just because someone switched class order and went Necro Druid Cleric Bard and it kicks butt... should NOT CALL FOR NERFS! At this point they should be almost as good as each other.

Class order is too important, it makes some classo's rule and others suck. You can't keep addressing the symptoms... address the root of the problem.

[Tap]

Then again...each class could get a prime skill at Level 1 Avatar that was equal in value to all over classes.

Warrior's Skull-Bash does 200-250 pts damage
Cleric's Preserve Life heals 200-250 pts damage
etc etc


Flame on..it would quite down the weiners
Whiners rather

[slobe]

This is in response thraxas and what he said.
First As far as prime necros go did you forget your juju? Its the best and one thing no non-prime necro can have.
Second My necro is n/d/c/b and cant get over -10 but I solo things that no thief, monk, or even some warriors could at the same levels and I play from a cell phone.
Third want longer spells like wraith and flu
Get attuned to enhancement.
To sum it all up maybe its not any nerf that makes your necro hard to play maybe
Just maybe its yours skillz.
(Necro in any game I've ever play has always been an advanced type of char to play)

[*juggleblood*]

Atwell I am still very suspicious that blind success seems now to depend on some unknown independent variable (species or mob level?). Join in on a bh xp group going thru the Matterhorn and see if you don't notice it as well. I'm willing as ever to concede confirmation bias.

[Tap]

This is a response to Slobe who was responding to Thraxas who was responding to the thread. I don't know much about ju-ju's I admit, but I see very little ingame. Perhaps because they die too easy and they are a pain to mass-produce. Your right, the newer classes are more specialized and possibly best for someone who has been here awhile to pick up the basics. Myself, thieves kick ass.Nothing beats a successful triple-backstab circle thrust circle thrust thurst thrust circle and release.Shrug.

ps- How do you handle scrolling on a phone? Do you gag everything?

[alias]

I have no problem w/ necro quad getting swordwraiths like someday I will when I finally level my prime class to 5x40. In doing so I want valk, pitfiend, ect,and Juju isnt all that good. juju is basically a demilich that u need 16 corpses for instead of one. Yes he stays alive and doesn't crumble after 10 ticks that is about his only bonus.

and yes everyone w/ necro in classo gets the same animates and followers- except for juju and undead control caps.


there is quite a gap between wraiths at level 36 and swordwraiths at 5x40 for summons... maybe we could close the gap w/ something in between to summon, animates are cool and prob don't need any help.

the phantoms and banshees are worthless now.

Alias/Pooka

[Thraxas]

[quote="slobe":3u1gwkij]
To sum it all up maybe its not any nerf that makes your necro hard to play maybe
Just maybe its yours skillz.
(Necro in any game I've ever play has always been an advanced type of char to play)[/quote:3u1gwkij]

thanks for that, maybe it is my skills or maybe its just that i don't rely on botting in groups, or maybe i do actually have a valid point and a question which if you actually read my post properly you'd have picked up on 'nerfing has swung against me this time, can we expect any swings in the forseeable future that may aid me?'
I guess that as you don't seem to have understood that, it may be you're reading skillz need some work too ... either that or the cell you work and are oh so overly proud of playing on on is detrimental to your comprehension.

yours petulently,

Thraxas

[Leaf]

+2 Thraxas
+0 Slobe

[Leaf]

I would also like to agree with Alias that Necros need something more from
3x40 Wraiths to 5x40 Swords. Maybe once ur 4x40 or that give the limit
for Wraiths to 4 instead of 3, they alot better then phantoms or banshees.

[Toxis]

Is a pit fiend really that much more powerful than a Ju-Ju?

Necros get juju + 2 swords, max undead control, and only 1 round of order undead assist lag.

The thing that I think is funny is how banshee and phantoms aren't at least equal in strength to the wraiths. You run around till av 25 until you can make demi-liches. I'm not saying make them more powerful than wraiths, but wouldn't you think they'd at least be halfway decent? You can make 3 wraiths and only 2 banshees or phantoms, and they aren't even equal in hit points.

I think the only reason why I play addict instead of making a cleric or mage is because less order lag and with juju I don't have to kill only evil mobs at av40, or mess with keeping align the same.

Addict has monk, which will give me some dam reduction and I can grip and the other monk skills, I had planned to run -10 ac. I really feel for the bards, but bards do have gods of war. And an extra 7 damage to each attack of 3 wraiths... is it better than -11? Tough call, and I feel sorry for them because it wasn't that way when they designed their character. I completely understand why you all would feel jipped.

Oh yeah, death pact sucks.

-Toxis/Brad

[alias]

correct me if I'm wrong but phantoms and banshees used to be eth, since they are not anymore they don't live very long.

[strider]

yes necros have been nerfed all to hell, but they needed to be. they were ridiculously powerful at the start and they still are one of the most powerful classes. i doubt much more will be changed about them anytime soon whether by addition or subtraction.

pets: yes banshess and phantoms suck now, they used to be great but they got changed a long time back and i don't think they realized hwo baddly they got hosed, and now nobody who cares is around to fix them.
calling a juju a glorified demi is insane, juju's rock and they rock damn hard, i'll put mine up against any other summon/animate you got (cept that damn archangel and his evil proc!). as far as no difference from prime to quad, it's just like most any other class from prime to quad, same skills just not as good. just like a mage prime needs to gather up his spelldmg eq to have a better bolt, necros need to gather up that uc eq to have better pets. what's so hard to understand about this? more uc means more hps and a better chance of hitting. that's quite an advantage. all of my xp runs w/ pets end when swords die, if mine have more hps the run lasts longer. necro quad's pets won't last long, hence a short crappy run. as far as the ac changes go, it hurt, but not all that much. think of all the other things you can add w/ that 1.0ac to spare! that and you already have your pets taking half the hits from the mob anyway, talk about a huge advantage!

granted it's been a long time since i had to lvl a necro prime up and things have changed since then. but they still remain an awesome class to play and can do things not many other classes can. be thankful you are a necro, there's a lotta classes that have it way worse than us.

[Leaf]

Does Heck means Cleric and Monks?!?!

[alias]

Mandos your juju is a bokor, there is a hell of a big difference between that and a viscous. this is full uc notice the small difference between juju and demi and the demis hit harder, both cast, weaken ect.

A demilich reports 827/827 hp, 125/125 mv, and 450/450 mana.
A demilich reports 934/934 hp, 125/125 mv, and 450/450 mana.
A vicious Ju-Ju Zombie reports 990/990 hp, 1000/1000 mv, and 500/500 mana.


and yes I'm not complaining about the power of necros just stating the facts.
While I can't solo the elite mobs that 5x40 druids can, I don't do bad.

I can certainly solo more in my necro than my tank, hence why I'm more comfortable in pooka than alias.

While the ac nerf hurt a lot of people I cant say it hurt me, so don't think this is about personal gain- I still run -11 and don't know if I would be able to go -12 for quite a while, but I noticed a lot necros were hurt so much they basically gave up the char and started another.