New Old Classo?

[Avatar]

Mix and match is good advice.

Wraithform is odd. Just an opinion, but I think the best way to fix it would be to open up the spell so that it can be cast on other players. This should encourage cooperation and grouping, much like sanctuary does. A lower-level char with necro could become the d-wraithformer, much like we had dsancers. (The avatar duration bonus to aegis kinda killed dsancing, but there are other ways to fix that.)

[Mosaix]

I built Mosaix a long time ago i think about 2001 before the new classos went in. He rolled good stats so I kept playing him to begin my sloth 3 fun.
When the new classos went in and I became old classo, and up till now even, ive given thought to what id done to make my char different. Or even building a new char.

Cleric 1st mage 2nd, and warrior 4th Id still have kept. I want the healbonus, spelldam in the 2nd slot of 70, and warrior quad so I can wear good armor eq while I solo with Cleric suppli. The only new classo ive thought about adding might be necro to 3rd. Lots of good spells there, undeads etc. But thief skills such as stabbing, shaddowalk especially, kept me from ever making a new char to really level another char up with.

Cleric mage thief war has been and still is a lot of fun, escpecially at avatar. Its hard at first with the cleric prime, and was very hard before supplication came in but it works for me and is fun to play.

Mosaix

[*juggleblood*]

I don't know about wraithform. Even in desert there's really only 5 mobs or so that's it's really effective on (stalker, lion, roc, sultan, pyrohydra). And there's always charms for that.

I think monk's damage reduction is a more significant benefit.

[Rodek]

Wraithform when effective will just remove attacks. Even if it fires once per round (and on many mobs it wont, but on others it will do several times a round) for the attacks doing 100s per hit this really helps. Damage reduction for a monk might cap at something like 12hp at 5x40 with eq for a tank char, and this definately helps, but against big mobs does not overcome the effect of a single avoided attack (this is why parry is still the key tanking skill)

Greater fluidity doing combined with monk resistance probably ends up equalling 1 wraithform miss on the bigger mobs, I would guess. I think some tweaks to old school classes like thief witha tumbling skill to have a chance to avoid some attacks would work well, but the idea didnt seem to warmly received when i suggested a few months back.

[Messiaen]

[quote="juggleblood":2knehe0w]I don't know about wraithform. Even in desert there's really only 5 mobs or so that's it's really effective on (stalker, lion, roc, sultan, pyrohydra). And there's always charms for that.

I think monk's damage reduction is a more significant benefit.[/quote:2knehe0w]

When you solo, having wraithform up always makes sense.

[firebrand]

gee a lot of these comments sound vaguely familiar. i agree that while wraithform and dmg redux are nice, they are not exactly NECESSARY to be able to tank. if you have a well organized group and healo, any average sized group can take on almost any challenge ingame (aside from those pesky epic mobs). one of the most frustrating and insulting things i have seen while grouping is that the leader will push an oldskewl tank down or out of tanko just because newclass tanks have the new buffs and skills. that tells the oldskewler that the leader has no faith in them and that they are useless in the group except to provide meat/size for the group. it is really annoying to be 5x40 tank and get pushed aside for a 3x40 char with much lower hps, no triple or av attack, parry, riposte, defy pain, etc. i can understand if leader wants to give newtank xps. that at least i can respect and will willingly step aside.

"they don't have a name for what he is" -- clarice starling --> silence of the lambs

[Messiaen]

[quote="firebrand":v76b63uz]gee a lot of these comments sound vaguely familiar. i agree that while wraithform and dmg redux are nice, they are not exactly NECESSARY to be able to tank. if you have a well organized group and healo, any average sized group can take on almost any challenge ingame (aside from those pesky epic mobs). one of the most frustrating and insulting things i have seen while grouping is that the leader will push an oldskewl tank down or out of tanko just because newclass tanks have the new buffs and skills. that tells the oldskewler that the leader has no faith in them and that they are useless in the group except to provide meat/size for the group. it is really annoying to be 5x40 tank and get pushed aside for a 3x40 char with much lower hps, no triple or av attack, parry, riposte, defy pain, etc. i can understand if leader wants to give newtank xps. that at least i can respect and will willingly step aside.

"they don't have a name for what he is" -- clarice starling --> silence of the lambs[/quote:v76b63uz]

I guess the leaders just try to make group work in a more efficient way.

[Medios]

There are certainly mobs that care not about wraithform. As far as I can tell it is based on the mob level. Stab type mobs like desert, dot, mostly have low level, low hp, high dmg. Form works perfectly here, the lower lvl mobs pass through almost every time brushing off that 400hp per round. The mobs that Rub commented on will pass through almost every round. The other desert mobs will still pass from time to time making it definately worthwhile. Just to prove my point sometime I will run you guys through the desert with a wform tank, and one time without. You will quickly notice that the healo mana is drained fast by stalker, cobra, roc and will deplete before you work your way to stone giants and priests. I don't want to give away all the trade secrets, you guys can just watch sometime when I am leading and should be able to get the point. When the tank has necro its not only wraithform that matters. Spectral shield is a large factor in tanking some areas. When you can form and spectral, then regain your form mana in the next fight and heal with surplus it overshadows the non necro tanks. I am sorry that you old schoolers feel "underpowered" but as I stated before I got an old schooler and I laugh at the new class chars that think they can keep up with what I am doing. If its that bad, make one of those "overpowered" n00bies and see how much you like it then.

Mike

PS. Anyone ever consider that old school warriors can backstab and blast. I would much rather do these things than just get hit and die.

[Krok]

Imho: people might have faith in old-schoolers, but there is no point in spending more mana on healing them->slowing down the group if you can just make the new-class warrior tank. 5x40 old-school "meat" tanks are much more useful in lower in the group order, when they can use not only their av attacks, but their mregen/spelldam mode as well.

[Thraxas]

[quote="Messiaen":19ioevsu][I guess the leaders just try to make group work in a more efficient way.[/quote:19ioevsu]

Nice going, was that a deliberately calculated flame intended to wind people up or just an ignorant opinion from someone too conceited to understand that other people can sometimes have valid opinions?

[quote="firebrand":19ioevsu]one of the most frustrating and insulting things i have seen while grouping is that the leader will push an oldskewl tank down or out of tanko just because newclass tanks have the new buffs and skills. that tells the oldskewler that the leader has no faith in them and that they are useless in the group except to provide meat/size for the group[/quote:19ioevsu]

Personally I've never seen anyone tell any 5x40 experienced tank (oldskool or not) they weren't good enough to tank any group, perhaps I'm just not looking hard enough.

Personally I find aegis fludity and wraithform when mixed with -10 or -11 work well for soloing individual mobs, and allow me to tackle much bigger mobs that I'd otherwise be able to, as such it has a good use, just as many other new and old class skills and spells do. The right spell/skill for the right occasion. The player and their skill and knowledge is far more important than the class their playing.

[Messiaen]

[quote:2pung2cy]Nice going, was that a deliberately calculated flame intended to wind people up or just an ignorant opinion from someone too conceited to understand that other people can sometimes have valid opinions?[/quote:2pung2cy]
Sorry, I don't like you.

[13]

[quote:22piotvw]When you solo, having wraithform up always makes sense.[/quote:22piotvw]

No, it doesn't actually. Wraithform is pretty limited and limiting as far as duration and mana cost go. I have told plenty of 5x40 old school tanks that they don't cut the mustard and it is the truth comparatively speaking.

Like I said on the first page, a SMART person with a lot of DRACHMA EQ *CAN* be a powerful old-class character. The same person with the same amount of drachma eq invested in newclass or hybrid character is far more powerful. No question. It's proven, done already.

Dogs is Mike's way of showing traditionalist pussies that cleric isn't needed.
Blackula is (will be) a step even further that will prove that you not only don't need old classes, but that you don't even need warrior to be a superior tank.

2c

[Messiaen]

[quote="13":2cwlf7oj]No, it doesn't actually. Wraithform is pretty limited and limiting as far as duration and mana cost go. I have told plenty of 5x40 old school tanks that they don't cut the mustard and it is the truth comparatively speaking.[/quote:2cwlf7oj]

Well, probably I meant the certain type of mobs, which hit hard enough to make it important to lose maybe 30 hp less each round on average, thats a very common thing...

[quote:2cwlf7oj]Dogs is Mike's way of showing traditionalist pussies that cleric isn't needed.[/quote:2cwlf7oj]
Zukt and Truth did it before *wink*

[Vixn]

[quote="Messiaen":7aykphjv] [quote:7aykphjv]Dogs is Mike's way of showing traditionalist pussies that cleric isn't needed.[/quote:7aykphjv]
Zukt and Truth did it before *wink*[/quote:7aykphjv]

last player Teron. That's a challenge!

[Yinao]

Oldskool, newskool, combination of the two. Play what suits you best, have fun with it, ignore others that tell you your char isnt as good as another, and prove the shit with a punch in the mouth