Game, set, match.

[Shazuko]

Don't use this recent trend of universal 'political correctness' as an excuse to asuage your constitutional rights, INCLUDING the right to protect yourself with a firearm. Everyone who just voted for this guy basically bent over and gave their asses away--and thats what he will do to the first country that wants to take it! As far as the right to bear arms, I dont need a piece of paper to tell me its common sense to keep someone else from causing me physical harm or worse! Get real, do you HONESTLY think the police are going to be there for you at a moments notice? Do you think they are your personal body guards with NOTHING to do but make sure no one attacks you?
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"Do you live in fear? Are you afraid of trouble?"
No, I live in common sense. I'm also NOT afraid that my house will burn down, but I have several fire extinguishers in my house--and they are loaded too!

If I were worried about REAL trouble, I'd carry a bazooka..

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I'm really tired of this 'punish the whole class for one screw up' mentality.

I don't care how 'modern' or cutting-edge you believe your thoughts are, or how politically correct it would be, or how your hollow empty idealistic expectations 'fit' into a corporate scenario....stop handing your freedoms over(all of them, not just the 2nd amendment) in the hopes that it will get 'better'...its not, and those who just put this guy in office will have their jaws hitting the floor in about 6 months,when he pulls one over on us...

As far as personal protection, remember this:

When SECONDS count...the cops are only MINUTES away...


<Shazuko Roku Ryuu>
<Shazuko Six Dragons>
<~Chaos~>


"An armed society, is a polite society." --Benjamin Franklin

[Alberich]

[quote="Weasel":3akvg0nt][quote="jezer":3akvg0nt]So weasel, looking like Obama's won... Any comment...? I want to see what kind of a sore loser you are... Maybe his bags are already packed to head back to NZ![/quote:3akvg0nt]
It's been looking like he was going to win from the start. I was hoping it wouldn't happen, but it did. I don't think it will be safe to make comments against Obama in the future, and perhaps I should go and delete all my previous comments for that reason? Congrats to those who support him, the margins he won by look like they exceed all the fraudulent votes, so he's in at the will of the people.. or at the will of the media more accurately LOL. I guess time will reward you appropriately. Good luck.[/quote:3akvg0nt]

Well, as Mencken said, Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.

Get ready for some Democracy folks, it's best to just lie back and try to enjoy it...

[Rynquald]

So, if someone doesn't believe that people having weapons with which to defend themselves reduces crime, but also isn't naive enough to believe that outlawing guns will stop criminals having them, what reason do they have to back gun control?

Apparently those of us who want to defend ourselves do it out of fear. But I'd be more inclined to say that gun control advocates hold their views out of a general fear of guns. At least that is the only reason I can come up with that doesn't involve direct insults to their intelligence.

And just because I can't resist addressing some comments someone further down the thread made, even if we pretend that Arnold Schwarzenegger films accurately portray reality and ignore the fact that miniguns are not hand held weapons (perhaps it was an exaggeration to make a point), I'd rather have a normal small weapon to defend myself than nothing.

Chances are your gun won't jam at the very moment that it can save your life by firing. Unless the cartridge misfires you're pretty much guaranteed one shot, and you can always get a revolver or breach loading rifle/shotgun if you're really worried.

Finally, in general, the world is a safer place for many nations having nuclear weapons. If only one has them, you have an invincible world power. If two have them, you end up with more instances of the Cold War. Although even in the Cold War they were useful, without nuclear weapons to give both sides a compelling reason to avoid open conflict, it would have likely been a lot worse. Obviously the best situation in the long run would probably be no one having any, but that just isn't going to happen.

[Stark]

Yes, the sheeple have spoken.

From a republican perspective, one positive thing about this election is finally democrats will only have themselves to blame for the next four years. And I imagine with Barrack's policies, there will be a lot of blaming going on.

Sad thing is, most people I know who voted for Barrack did so because he stands for "hope, change, and not Bush!". Barrack's people certainly get A's for their marketing campaign.

I wonder when people will realize that Barrack can't walk on water...

[jezer]

[img:1y37f8nl]http://www.photius.com/rogue_nations/victim.jpg[/img:1y37f8nl]

[img:1y37f8nl]http://www.geocities.com/daveclarkecb/NewPhotos/VictimOfWhitePhos.jpg[/img:1y37f8nl]

[img:1y37f8nl]http://www.japanfocus.org/images/UserFiles/Image/2642.kuznick.tibbets.abomb/Victim.hiro.jpg[/img:1y37f8nl]

Yeah, weapons have definitely made the world a safer place. You've convinced me, actually, I might start carrying grenades now... I mean have to look out for number one and all, and because I'm right who gives a stuff about anyone else... I'm just so glad we have invented all these thousands of new ways to kill each other to make the world safer. Maybe if we invent an even bigger killer, yeah, the world will be definitely safer, cause man has shown so much responsibility to use these things wisely... I mean these people deserved it. We were just protecting ourselves... and we were right don't forget... Unfortunate that they got in the way, but who really gives a stuff.

You make me really angry... I'm in half a mind to do a weasel.

[Avatar]

My opinions:

Violence, murder, armed robbery - these things aren't going to go away by banning firearms. What you really need is violence control.

You reduce violence by restricting gun sales to criminals or the mentally ill, and punishing those who inflict harm on others.

You don't punish people if they haven't performed a crime, and don't plan to. Restricting sales of firearms makes sense, banning firearms does not.

[Rynquald]

I'm not a doctor, but the people in those images don't look like they were wounded by firearms.

I really do fail to see how burns victims relate to gun control, or the lack of.

Edit: Thought to check the filenames.

The first is linked from a page that in turn links the image to a news page about looting in Iraq. The image doesn't appear on the linked page and it seems to be without context on the page it's pulled from.

The second image seems to be of someone exposed to white phosphorus, hardly a consumer self-defence weapon.

The third one appears to be a victim of radiation burns after the Hiroshima bombing. Must every conversation about gun control eventually involve nuclear weapons?

Arguments that rely on provoking an emotional response rarely hold water.

[jezer]

Oh that's just lame! All violence is from the same prevailing attitude in man.

I'm out of this argument, you know you can't win when you get lame come backs like that. Humanity couldn't give a stuff about these people enough to let them live... so he wasn't shot by a gun... grow a heart. It's ignorant and careless attitudes like that, that let these things happen, all the while making the lamest selfish excuses.

[Avatar]

Well, we're willing to think about it, at least.

I own guns, but I didn't shoot any of those people. I've never shot any person, or animal. So, should someone take away my guns because someone out there has radiation burns? Should I take away someone else's rights because I don't like to see people hurt either?

So there is looting in Iraq, and people are being shot. What can we do to protect those people? Give up our guns and send in unarmed soldiers?

It's not a perfect world, we just do the best we can.

[Tap]

Speaking of lame=

[quote:p7y7c9vh]What makes me kinda think about the country we live in, is everyone is saying Black this, black that. Did everyone forget he is also 1/2 white?[/quote:p7y7c9vh]

Odd...the only person bringing up race is Osama and his co-horts.

More lameness=


[quote:p7y7c9vh]So when you pull a gun on a crook, you don't get shot and he puts his weapon down right?[/quote:p7y7c9vh]

No..Mr. Crook knowing that there is NOT a gun ban might think twice before doing a home invasion. Now, home invasions happen all the time..it's just nice knowing that if someone(s) is looking to come thugging in the middle of the night, I don't have to rely on a butter knife to protect my righteous ass..and as pointed...if it's 2 against 1 then I am pretty much f*cked

And now a remark regarding Joe the Weasel=

[quote:p7y7c9vh]I don't think it will be safe to make comments against Obama in the future[/quote:p7y7c9vh]

He is already doing that and before he was elected...only now he is going to set up a network of spies to "rat" on opponents. Isn't Socialism great?
BTW, his name is Osama.

Back to more lameness from Jezer=

[quote:p7y7c9vh]so he wasn't shot by a gun... grow a heart. It's ignorant and careless attitudes like that, that let these things happen, all the while making the lamest selfish excuses.[/quote:p7y7c9vh]

Hrm..You try to make an anti-gun argument using pics NOT involving gun injuries blah blah? Hrm Jezer..why don't we ban bridges while we are at it, you know..people still jump off them.

I'll agree with Alberich, best to sit back and watch what happens. I don't own a gun yet but I've already selected several to try out and next paycheck, I'll be making my first purchase. I hope I never have to use it, I hope that I am wrong and everyone else that Osama won't try to ban guns even though he has suggested as much in the past. Heck, just because he said it doesn't mean he means it...that's democrat thinking anyways...on that train of thought I hope all those radical associtations of his are really nice people and we can all sit aroound in a circle and sing Koom-ba-Yah...it could happen..I doubt it but who knows

[Rynquald]

I think everyone understands, and very likely agrees with, the position that the world would be a better place without violence, war, and so on.

To be honest, everything you say on this subject seems to centre around the general statement that "violence is bad". Do you really, seriously think that people who want to own weapons disagree with that statement?

Assuming that we're more talking about their use as a means of self-defence than their use in various sports, I'm going to create a hypothetical example.

Say a murder is about to be committed by a criminal wielding a knife (not a gun). The victim is cornered, they can't escape, and no one else is nearby. In this scenario someone is going to be killed. Would you seriously argue that if the victim were to produce a weapon and defend themselves with lethal force, they would be "not giving a stuff" or being selfish?

That isn't rhetorical, I'm actually curious what you think.

[jezer]

Yes, short retirement...

[quote="Rynquald":38vi1c5o]Say a murder is about to be committed by a criminal wielding a knife (not a gun). The victim is cornered, they can't escape, and no one else is nearby. In this scenario someone is going to be killed. Would you seriously argue that if the victim were to produce a weapon and defend themselves with lethal force, they would be "not giving a stuff" or being selfish?[/quote:38vi1c5o]

But rynquald just proved my point... Once again... justification of owning weapons based solely on projected fears. Do you want to live your life under that weight? I choose not too.

There is no point owning guns, if there is no use for them. And for the gun collectors in my own extended family... I look at there lives and I see why they collect guns... sure they aren't collected for protection or to kill others... but they too have fear in there lives... I sense insecurity and a need to be in control... owning a gun is giving this too them, it gives them there fix of importance and power.

[Rynquald]

I'm sorry but I don't fully understand the meaning of the "short retirement" comment.

But from the next paragraph. Your argument is that any preparation for being in a situation where you need to physically defend yourself is based solely on projected fear?

These situations exist every day. While it is relatively unlikely that any given person will ever need to protect their life or the lives of their family, thousands of people are murdered or raped every year.

Of course I don't want to live under the weight that any of this could happen to me. But the possibility exists, having the ability and the right to defend myself does not increase the chances.

In one post you complain about all the violence and death that occurs every day, while in the next you accuse the people who are concerned about it happening to them of being unduly fearful.

[jezer]

[quote="Rynquald":lgduckso]In one post you complain about all the violence and death that occurs every day, while in the next you accuse the people who are concerned about it happening to them of being unduly fearful.[/quote:lgduckso]

I see that "Fear is too the mind, what violence is to the body." Both are tools that seek to bring down humanity. Same source, different out workings.

A man commiting violence acts out of fear, the man who fears opens himself up to commit violence. I don't want either.

So maybe to put this in terms you understand. I'm stuck in a room with a man with a weapon, and he wants to hurt me... what am I saying I would do? I can't answer that question, I could do anything, I may even "snap" - this is human... however how I would hope...

I would do all that I could to preserve my survival, while keeping the integrity of what I believe is right... there is a saying I quite like, and that I like to live by... "Don't let me become the man, that I say that I despise." I hope I can make it to the end of life's journey keeping that.

[Tap]

I think I understand where Jezer is coming from, he wants to ban people.