talk of exp and 8x40

[norks]

I agree with most of what Stark says. The huge amount of XP required to progress in S4 has always been apparent but I have only just realised the major difference between S3 and S4 is that the latest incantation of this game is that it is aimed squarely at the best and most hardcore gamers. And that is not me. Neither do I have the time to spend all night in a chop group just to get a level. The lack of progression is now channelling me in the direction of a break. Probably a long one. I’ll be back of course because I love Sloth and have many friends here. But it is a game after all and one should enjoy playing. When it feels like work or stops being fun, it’s time to do something else.

Maybe I chose the wrong classo or maybe I just don’t know how to play it. There are no apparent increases in power for my cleric prime for way too long. The Avatar 10 supplication creatures are useless and there’s nothing new at 5x40. We have the same old S3 supplicants spread out across nine classes: this is just too thin to my mind. Maybe I am continuing to flog a dead horse but for all the reasons Stark pointed out, I just cannot start again.

Maybe I’ll give WoW a go.

Anyway, so long and thanks for all the fish!

Norks

[jezer]

I agree with most of what Stark says. The huge amount of XP required to progress in S4 has always been apparent but I have only just realised the major difference between S3 and S4 is that the latest incantation of this game is that it is aimed squarely at the best and most hardcore gamers. And that is not me. Neither do I have the time to spend all night in a chop group just to get a level. The lack of progression is now channelling me in the direction of a break. Probably a long one. I’ll be back of course because I love Sloth and have many friends here. But it is a game after all and one should enjoy playing. When it feels like work or stops being fun, it’s time to do something else.

Thumbs Up. Me too.

[Insomniac]

The huge amount of XP required to progress in S4 has always been apparent but I have only just realised the major difference between S3 and S4 is that the latest incantation of this game is that it is aimed squarely at the best and most hardcore gamers.

Yep, I agree with Norks. I am one of those "hardcore" gamers but even I'm struggling to maintain my motivation for playing because of the EXP you need to level.

What's more, once you get these crazy amounts of exp, you often don't get any tangible benefit. I worked hard to get 5X40 and as a necro I was expecting an improvement in pets but I didn't get one. From speaking to Wimpy, all the pets between 4X40 and 8X40 are useless and he still uses banshees (4X40 pets).

Another issue for me as a leader of groups is that because you need so much exp, it means for me to level right now I need to be leading a chop group for about 16-18 hours. If I want to level more than once a week, it means that I have to lead groups for 32 hours a week. That's almost like a job!

The number of people who simply don't pay attention in groups is staggering. I don't blame them either...if you have to do the same thing over and over for 15 hours of hardcore grouping just to get a level, it's bound to be boring.

Nonetheless, I don't feel good about leading groups like I've been doing because largely people don't pay attention. I don't know what changed from S3 but right now in a group of 10 people typically the only people paying attention are leader, tank and 1-2 others who seem to pay attention out of habit. With everyone else, you have to wait before they respond every time.

[Cizin]

I have no idea what you are talking about
Exping is boring ? No benefits ? This whining always remind me on 'i want ALL and I want it NOW!'.
Do you really expect get 9x40 in a couple of months ? C'mon - I really enjoy every step in my progress and still do.
To illustrate that I will try to describe one of my typical mud day (from yday).
Woke up early and was kinda lazy to sharpen my dagger in lyme stab area. So i decided to stay on BH. Those grey raiders provided a perfect warm up do i decided to kill all raids on BH. That gave me 5k honor and 50mil exps.
After that cleared 6-7 Lyme stab areas which gave me another 300m. I said to myself ' 'nuf stabbing, les try do something else.'.
Went into Yuan-ti Temple and tried make a perfect tactic for a yuan-ti priest.
I needed something to distracted his summoned Avatar so i almost died there cpl of times.
Cleared 10mil exps albino scorpions in CK and almost died twice while doing it.
Talked to Wimpy and decided to group and hit MH for a marble sceptres. That was a real fun. I enjoyed 2man 20m+ mobs so easily. We popped some eq and gems and went in DoT. Oh boy. That was really exciting experience in DoT.
After a while we had nuf of DoT so we decided to subdue Djab. Now that was one mofo who doesn't like to get subdued. Wimpy died, Blackmore joined later and cf two times. Katie tried to tank but was too distracted and voided eventually. We tried a couple of more mobs in Desert before we had 'nuf.

So i logged in my 3x40 bard and tried something brave and foolish on SS which gave me 10mil exps in a minute. Bards are so overpowered !

What I am trying to say is you have to play this game ! Not bot 90% of the time and expect someone else work on your exps.
Why in hell do you need to gain exps to enjoy this game ? There are so many other things you could do that would most certainly make you distracted and happy.
And yes. Almost nobody run solo exps? why ? too hard ? Blah. My bard made 60mil yday in 30 mins and that was for testing purpose only.

Sloth is group based game but there is so many thing you could do and have great time. I just named couple of those.

Btw. Sloth went UP while i was writing this!

.)

[Insomniac]

You're really cool, Cizin.

[Ezekiel]

I like the positive attitude you hold toward the game, Ciz, It's just that the eq and the rate at which you leveled have allowed you to enjoy the game's progression at a different rate than the rest. It is clear, by people's motivations to post here, that it seems more like a struggle/grind than enjoyment...not because people are not 'handed' things while botting...but because they put out a lot of time and effort and gain/enjoy progression of their char very minimally, maybe not having the amount of time to earn that quick progression in skill that you did. I'm not saying I don't want to put in time to be rewarded...i'm saying that many people played S3 here and have general perceptions of reward/gain per time that they put in....and general observations from other games that they've played...and the grind is simply overreaching here.

Of course, between our comments, it would be a matter of perception...i'm just trying to make you see that people play because they want to enjoy it and feel like it's a struggle at the same time, but there needs to be a balance between the two...for you, one of the hardcore mudders being referenced, the mud may seem like it has enough balance.

But it seems there is a different general concensus from a lot of other chars (me included), which is also a part of the community input Splork was looking for.

A thanks to the imms for their concern over this issue, and I believe changes would be generally welcomed, even if they take some time.

Just my perspective. -Ezekiel

[Shyla]

move your tushy back here norks
shyla

[Bennett]

Hats off to Cizin. Clearly he understands how to play the game in a way that I just couldn't figure out. I tried pretty hard for a while to level my char up by soloing, but I just couldn't get anywhere. Sloth is a great game, but I don't think it is a game for the casual player like me who just wants to pop in every few nights and run an hour of xp while I drink a beer. As far as I can tell, you have to be pretty hard-core to feel like you are getting anywhere. At the very least, you certainly need some skills that I don't know where to acquire --- the way I run my char I don't see how I could ever make it anywhere near 9x40.

[*Splork*]

Desert experience has been increased yet again, this is probably the last time.


ALL experience, across the board, has been increased about 10-14%. This change will go into effect next reboot.


ENjoy,
Splork and team

[Sleeping Forest]

Thank you ever so much

[Insomniac]

Thanks Rick, I'll lead some desert over the next couple of weeks and report back

[jezer]

Noticeable Improvement, thanks.

[Insomniac]

Fair to say Desert is now excellent exp: as good as chop normally and even slightly better than chop with a perfectly sized/balanced group (which is a rare thing these days).

Thanks!

[Thraxas]

Loved this thread, great read and lots of the sentiments chime with my experience.

Cizin in particular made me chuckle, you're absolutely right in everything you say and yet at the same time so so wrong:
You did however really hit the nail on the head with your question:

Do you really expect get 9x40 in a couple of months ?

I think the answer to that is yes I think most people do ... and why not? level to 9x40 in 6 months playing 5 hours a week then move on to another classo or refine the equipment (that is so central to sloth) ... casual players then get the opportunity to gain a sense of progression.
Personally I think sloth only has a future with hardcore gamers who are prepared to be far more committed than the 99.x% of the more casual online gamers, sloth is something great to love and enjoy but only by the few ... if it were able to be played and enjoyed on a far more casual pop in for a couple of hours on a sunday afternoon most weeks and still see sensible progression it might still be a good game and suit many more peoples lifestyles but it wouldnt be slothmud.

If people are logging in then not playing (i.e. botting) then something is creating a situation where they do this rather than play the game, this to my mind is quite obviously the incredibly tedious long winded and far too drawn out levelling requirements coupled with the lack of tangible benefit to reaching a progression point, every level especially every 40 should be a sense of excitement, an adventure trying the limits of new powers not a sense of disappointment at the lack of change and dread at how far til the next checkpoint.

Huge respect to you cizin for putting pretty much everyone else in your shadow in how you play the game, but we're not all you nor have the time nor inclination to play at your level.

I dont however see that tinkering (e.g. adding 10% xp across the board) while welcome will much fundamentally change this, nor do I think it necessarily a good thing to fundamentally change this, slothmud is for good or ill what it is, if you spend 2 years getting struggling to 6x40 it would be galling to suddenly the game changes so you can do that in 2 months.
The easier a game is to play, the quicker it is to get return on your invested time, the more immediate the fun it is to play the more players will play but they will be less committed and leave quicker, slothmuds model seems to be to aim for a small (and so fragile) highly committed playerbase ... its worked now for (19?) years ... not bad going at all.

T

[Cizin]

It is so good to see you are alive British Man! We miss you .)

I spend my day on sloth almost as usual as it gets soling stuff, running some quick raid mobs and eq and most importantly i was blessed by imm's to hold an ancient and the most precious relics sloth has ever seen. It was such a good feeling revealing some of the best kept pirate's secret Sloth has ever witnessed.
I felt like a baby sucking his favorite toy wishing that moment never pass away.
Can't wait to continue an epic pirate saga . . . World looks so much better today ...

C