Bard CHA caps question

[Melanthe]

A prime bard informed me that prime bard CHA cap is 16. I wonder what the cap is for second and tert? I am a tert bard. Also, does dazzle/glamour play into the cap? Or is the cap in gear only? Also, how much CHA does Dazzle add? (I know glamour adds 3 cha.) Does dazzle stack with glamour (assuming yes). If my CHA cap is 9 for example, would my crys be any good? Or should I just forget about CHA and stick with my necromancer's Destruction?

Melanthe

[Weasel]

Will 'score stats' reveal when you get max, like it can with shock eq? I have no Bardish chars of any sort so I don't know.

[Gnu]

Glamour does not add 3 charisma. The value of addidion charisma varies in some interval (and may be negative too). I think that Dazzle adds +1 charisma point, but I am not sure, may be it is used in some complicated formula, that takes into account the % of your Dazzle skill. In accodrance to SCORE STATS every bard has some charisma even eithout any charisma eq, and the prime bard probably has more natural charisma. As for capping with 16 charisma points, I was always sure that the number is 17, dont know why, may be someone told me I saw a dream

If your charisma caps at 9, then your cry will be a little better. But not the every single cry. As I understand this system, higher charisma makes 100 crys do more damage, than the lower one does with the same number of crys.

[Melanthe]

Glamour added 3 charisma for me last night. But I guess it could vary like you say (already knew it could be negative with non-glamour). I became "as cute as a kobold in love" when it added the 3.

Melanthe

[Melanthe]

Got lucky with a Glamour cast and got 5 cha out of it (perhaps it was a masterful cast? didn't pay attention.) Removed all equipment and did a score stat: Pretty good singer (which is 5 cha). Managed to come across 8 cha in equipment, totalling 13 cha. I did a score stat with this and got the following:

Each of your songs is a masterpiece.
You have reached the peak of your potential for singing songs.

So it appears tert bard caps at 13 cha (with glamour playing into the cap). Someone told me yesterday that they knew quad bard caps at 11 cha. Also in this thread someone said prime bard caps at 17cha. So I guess the cha caps for the bards are: 17prime, 15sec, 13tert, 11quad. Another person told me that bard crys with 15+ cha go unsaved. So it appears only primary and secondary bards get the real cry dmg benefit; (I am tert capped at 13, sniff sniff). Makes sense. However, the requirement for unsaved crys may be 15+ cha AND prime bard; don't know for sure (but sec bard caps at 15 it appears).

Largest cry I got with 11cha in arena (not fully capped), was about 200dmg. Most were in the 160 range. My destructions unsaved are 120dmg, but I did manage to get a 140dmg destruction some how. I did observe that destruction seemed to get saved more than my crys.

Still would like to know how much Dazzle adds (guessing 1 cha), so I can plan my 5x40 eq running set accordingly.

Melanthe

[Avatar]

"Another person told me that bard crys with 15+ cha go unsaved."

I guess I don't understand that line. If you're familiar with saving throws in 2nd edition AD&D, it might help to understand how saves work. I'd guess that the mobs have specific saving throw numbers, probably based on their level, and your higher cha bonus modifies their chance to save. In that case, even a 5 cha would provide some benefit - the mob has less chance to make the saves. The best way to estimate the benefit you gain from high charisma would be to track how often a specific set of mobs makes (or fails) the save vs your cries. Then you could alter your charisma gear and (by tracking the saves again) see how much difference it makes.

[Tetsulunathaya]

Charisma:

From what I can tell, a Prime Bards Charisma Cap is +17, not +16. (I've worn up to +22 charisma gear to test it out, and removed piece by piece).

For my testing, Glamour does add +3, nearly every time. At least for a 3x40 bard prime. And Masterful always seems to add +5. (I've tested this about 40+ times to be sure).


As for 'unsaved cries', I don't know if this is true. Having extensively tested spells (wall of sleep, reign of confusion, etc.) against high level mobs, I can say that whilst they work almost every time, they don't always work, even with +17 charisma EQ on. So if this is something that only effects cry, then it might be true, but I've never heard of it. On my Wall of Sleep abuse binge, I probably had a 99% accuracy rate, or more. But I know a few times, with full charisma, I still failed.


How are you testing whether a mob makes the save or not on a cry?

[blackmore]

[quote="Tetsulunathaya":27391byt]Charisma:
As for 'unsaved cries', I don't know if this is true. [/quote:27391byt]

The original comment was probably by me, and it's being poorly interpreted. I would guess I said something like when my charisma get over about 15, it seems that nothing ever saves against them.

I don't do stats, I just do personal observation, and I have a feeling that whether that quote was from me or not, it was an observation that's being taken to an extreme that it wasn't intended for.