Are Stat Rolls and Rerolls Random?

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Are Stat Rolls and Rerolls Random?

Postby SirRobin » Mon May 23, 2005 10:59 am

1) Are stat rolls completely random?

2) Is there any floor or minimum for the stat total? In other words, does the program logic make sure you have at least a certain total, say 60 for example, in order to have a playable character?

3) What is the minimum value for a stat? I’ve seen values as low as 8.

4) Is there any pattern to rerolls?

5) Regarding a minimum stat total, if it exists, is it higher for higher level characters?

I realize these questions are somewhat odd, but I’m trying to figure out the logic for rerolling, since it appears to be a popular pastime. If a stat has a random value between 8 and 18 (18/xx for Str), then the average value is 13, and on average most characters will have stat totals around 75.

One of my early character experiments had a total of 68 to start. The first reroll dropped him to the low 60’s. The second raised him to the low 70’s. The third dropped him to the low 50’s and made it impossible for him to hunt at his previous level, so I dropped him and created a replacement rather than wait to find another token. A second character of mine found two tokens the same day, so I tried rerolling with him. The first reroll lowered his total, but the second brought him a little higher than the start. So my current thinking is to wait until I have at least two tokens before I reroll, although if every roll is completely random that is no protection against bad luck. My other thought is to not reroll at all if the character has a total in the high 60’s or higher.

Someone said that at higher levels the stats don’t matter as much as your classo, skills, and equipment. So does everyone wait until they are Level 20 or 40 to reroll? From what I can tell, rerolling below Level 15 is a big risk, you can cripple your character until you get a good reroll again.
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Re: Are Stat Rolls and Rerolls Random?

Postby Alberich » Mon May 23, 2005 11:09 am

[quote="SirRobin":2pznh3ub]1) Are stat rolls completely random?[/quote:2pznh3ub]

pretty much

[quote="SirRobin":2pznh3ub]2) Is there any floor or minimum for the stat total? In other words, does the program logic make sure you have at least a certain total, say 60 for example, in order to have a playable character?[/quote:2pznh3ub]

not for tris/hexes, i believe min stat on octs is like 10

[quote="SirRobin":2pznh3ub]3) What is the minimum value for a stat? I’ve seen values as low as 8.[/quote:2pznh3ub]

I've gotten 4's :)

[quote="SirRobin":2pznh3ub]) Is there any pattern to rerolls?[/quote:2pznh3ub]

I think so, if you roll crap stats, and roll again right away, you will probably get just as crap stats

[quote="SirRobin":2pznh3ub]5) Regarding a minimum stat total, if it exists, is it higher for higher level characters?[/quote:2pznh3ub]

see above :)
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Postby Leaf » Mon May 23, 2005 11:14 am

All tokens are based on a 3 dice 6 sides. Hence the lowest is 3 and highest
is 18. Octs lowest is 10, so there prob a factor like if 9 or under set to 10.
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Re: Are Stat Rolls and Rerolls Random?

Postby 12345 » Mon May 23, 2005 11:20 am

[quote="SirRobin":mpxmkwnk]1) Are stat rolls completely random?[/quote:mpxmkwnk]
Yes.

[quote="SirRobin":mpxmkwnk]2) Is there any floor or minimum for the stat total? In other words, does the program logic make sure you have at least a certain total, say 60 for example, in order to have a playable character?[/quote:mpxmkwnk]
An oct token will ensure you have at least a 10 in every stat. However, I've had mixed luck with them.

[quote="SirRobin":mpxmkwnk]3) What is the minimum value for a stat? I’ve seen values as low as 8.[/quote:mpxmkwnk]
The lowest values I've seen is 4, though I seem to remember someone had a wisdom of 3 and had negative mana regen... Anyone remember who that was?

[quote="SirRobin":mpxmkwnk]4) Is there any pattern to rerolls?[/quote:mpxmkwnk]
You should look up the link in the 'Royal Library' for your Stat Ordering, which will tell you which stats have preference for your classo. Other than that, there's no real pattern, though I've often sworn there appears to be one... somewhere.

[quote="SirRobin":mpxmkwnk]5) Regarding a minimum stat total, if it exists, is it higher for higher level characters?[/quote:mpxmkwnk]
Doesn't exist.

[quote="SirRobin":mpxmkwnk]I realize these questions are somewhat odd, but I’m trying to figure out the logic for rerolling, since it appears to be a popular pastime. If a stat has a random value between 8 and 18 (18/xx for Str), then the average value is 13, and on average most characters will have stat totals around 75.

One of my early character experiments had a total of 68 to start. The first reroll dropped him to the low 60’s. The second raised him to the low 70’s. The third dropped him to the low 50’s and made it impossible for him to hunt at his previous level, so I dropped him and created a replacement rather than wait to find another token. A second character of mine found two tokens the same day, so I tried rerolling with him. The first reroll lowered his total, but the second brought him a little higher than the start. So my current thinking is to wait until I have at least two tokens before I reroll, although if every roll is completely random that is no protection against bad luck. My other thought is to not reroll at all if the character has a total in the high 60’s or higher.

Someone said that at higher levels the stats don’t matter as much as your classo, skills, and equipment. So does everyone wait until they are Level 20 or 40 to reroll? From what I can tell, rerolling below Level 15 is a big risk, you can cripple your character until you get a good reroll again.[/quote:mpxmkwnk]

There is a recent change that rolls your stats with an oct when you reach level 8. Since this will ensure that every stat is at least 10, the total tends to be somewhat higher.

If you should reroll is another question entirely. It basically depends on what you want for stats and how much time you're willing to put into achieving that goal. Most players who are trying to build a solo character will usually roll until they get high dex. Thieves will usually roll until they get high percent strength. Mage/cleric types will usually go for high int/wis. If you're happy with the stats you have and don't want to risk losing them... don't. Many, myself included, will hoard tokens and roll them all at once. This protects against a single bad roll since you can just roll again. I try to have at least 10 tokens before I roll and have saved as many as 30. I think there are others that have collected much more. I have spent up to 2 months to get a character statted. If you don't want to spend that long... don't. Just find something you're willing to settle for and go with that.

Happy hunting.
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Postby 12345 » Mon May 23, 2005 11:22 am

[quote="Leaf":2s4jirdw]All tokens are based on a 3 dice 6 sides. Hence the lowest is 3 and highest
is 18. Octs lowest is 10, so there prob a factor like if 9 or under set to 10.[/quote:2s4jirdw]
Actually, if you roll a nine or under, the entire batch is re-rolled. As an example, I've got stats of 18/50 9 15 17 18 on a character. If I had rolled it with an oct, i would have lost the stats, but I consider these to be very playable for the character they're on.
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Postby Leaf » Mon May 23, 2005 11:25 am

That sucks I think... cause it would make more sense to have anything
9 or lower to just be set to 10...
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Postby SirRobin » Mon May 23, 2005 3:38 pm

Thanks for all the information. Knowing all this now, I think I like my current stats just fine. :)

I can understand why you would want high Dex for soloing. Just recently I’ve come to realize that high levels of Dex lower your AR. It looks like you may get –1 AR for each level of Dex starting at Dex 15. So at Dex 18 you would have –4 AR added to whatever you get from your items. No wonder Thieves were originally considered the best option for soloing.
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Postby Akasha2 » Mon May 23, 2005 4:07 pm

Bards get good dex also SirRobin. But I think it goes something like
Dex 14-15 -1ac
Dex 15-17 -2ac
Dex 18 -3ac

If I'm wrong someone, please correct me

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Postby 12345 » Mon May 23, 2005 4:08 pm

Actually, SirRobin had it exactly right.

15 -1
16 -2
17 -3
18 -4
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Postby Akasha2 » Mon May 23, 2005 4:10 pm

heh, I guesss you just never get AD&D stats out of your head :)
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Postby kjartan » Mon May 23, 2005 4:32 pm

[quote="Leaf":3dt8jp8k]That sucks I think... cause it would make more sense to have anything 9 or lower to just be set to 10...[/quote:3dt8jp8k]
Actually a reroll makes higher stats on average the way it is than if we did what you suggest. If we set the below-10 stat to 10, that would guarantee that it is exactly 10 and no better, but with a complete reroll your lowest stat might be higher than 10. The other stats are just as likely to be good in the second roll as in the first.

Of course you might mean that you think it sucks for some reason other than giving worse stats ... but I am just gonna guess not. I assume by "it would make more sense" you mean "it would be more to my advantage".

Why doesn't this BBCode have a [flame] tag?
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Postby Leaf » Mon May 23, 2005 6:22 pm

Well I was just thinking in a smaller angle I guess. Now that u explained
how the rolls happen, it sounds cool :)
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