Chopper issues

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Re: Chopper issues

Postby Driven » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:59 pm

One of the fundamental differences in opinion between yourself, Taron, and the immortals, is whether groups should have to pop choppers or not. The underlying statement you're making is that you want a rack that guarantees that your effort prior to the group is preserved such that groups can be run without having to pop choppers. The powers-that-be don't agree with that. The weapons rack is intended to give a group a starting point to then go pop more choppers. You want to it be more than that. You argue against this by saying "you don't value the time of your players", which is a silly argument because this entire mud is a waste of time.

You want chop to be less painful and the immortals don't. I really don't know how many times you can circle around this argument before we just accept the balance between lyme and offlyme that the immortals have chosen.
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Re: Chopper issues

Postby Teron » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:18 pm

Are you saying that "players must suffer" is the vision that immorts support?

If not, how would you translate that the attitude that individual player effort towards choppers should not count?

When you say
"You argue against this by saying "you don't value the time of your players", which is a silly argument because this entire mud is a waste of time."
do you mean that the entire time players spend here should not count and imms are fine with it?
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Re: Chopper issues

Postby Driven » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:41 pm

I'm saying their vision is a balance between offlyme and lyme. We all know that offlyme groups are harder to manage and require much more attention by all players involved. Lyme, while typically lower xp, is easier, and preferred by many players because they can sit back and drink beer while chatting and assisting. The average player is lazy and prefers chop groups -- prime example, all of Sloth3. So yes, the barriers to making chop somewhat painful are purposeful to get people to run offlyme. And you know what? It works. When I'm on mobile, I generally don't try to join offlyme groups because it requires too much interaction on mobile. However, I don't hesitate to join a chop group on mobile.

My point about time efficiency is that you arbitrarily equated "the immortals don't value the player's time" with "chop groups are required to run choppers". Let me explain. Let's say that the rack were expanded to 100 slots and chop groups didn't have to run choppers anymore. Isn't this "less efficient" than just making choppers permanent and everyone owns one? Couldn't you, at that point, also make the argument that the "immortals don't value the player's time" because they don't give us permanent choppers? It's an arbitrary label of malice towards the players when at the end of the day it's just your opinion of what's worth it and what isn't. My secondary point was an attempt to undermine the notion that time is some unassailable constant that should be respected as holy. The entire mud is a complete and utter waste of time to begin with, so appealing to time as some holy currency is laughable from the greater perspective.

Having said that, the point of playing the mud is to have fun. We know it's a waste of time and still have fun with it. Most people have fun when the mud is challenging, yet doable. If it's too easy, people don't find any personal satisfaction in achieving eqsets or levels. If it's too hard, people will give up and simply not play anymore.
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Re: Chopper issues

Postby Teron » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:39 pm

1. I understand that chop should be somewhat less exp, than offlyme, due to its playstyle.
2. There is enough disadvantages for Lyme as it is: no bonuses, less gems, someone still has to pop and save the specs.
3. Breaking specs is fine, not saving them *when popped*, not.
4. To think that popping specs in a large group is enjoyable is laughable. If time isn't worth it - is fun worth it?
5. Some players don't have 5 hours to devote to grouping, and to spend 1hr of it on popping specs. Some don't even have 2 hours.

I thought the fact that Lyme doesn't get exp bonuses and less gem poprate was enough to discourage people from exping there?
Why do groups need to waste even more time/exp/hr on popping specs, if they want to group on Lyme?

I don't think you realize that people just idle in offlyme groups, too.
Some don't assist.
Some just assist - that includes 9x40s.
Some have rudimentary triggers and are annoyed, when you tell them to fix trigs.
Some have great triggers and may not touch the keyboard for several areas.

Either way, people have ways not to type stuff in offlyme groups as well.

Why is offlyme encouraged and chop discouraged so harshly in this situation?

Are you sure that current process of obtaining specs is not on the hard side? Are there any qualitative or quantifiable metrics that you can tell me, like "there's a chop group every day, you just aren't here"?
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Re: Chopper issues

Postby Filk » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:02 am

Damn, what are you discussing even?
Problem isnt chppers or group exp rate, problem is server restart for any reason. While its 9 days server up, there are enough choppers at vaults or inn for grouping. No matter if they are in the rack or on the ground - they still around.
Rack solving only problem of choppers after crash or reboot, nothing more. So it could be easily expanded to for example 20 slots, which will be enough to cover group needs after crash or reboot.
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