Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

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Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby Gorka » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:03 am

Set out to design the "Ultimate Warrior" on paper.

This is a CAPPED MAX_STR (25), CAPPED Dam Reduct (25), CAPPED Weapon Dam (25), MAX AC eq build for a Warrior Monk...

This includes Hero Rank, max purchases of MAX_STR, MAX_DEX, MAX_CON, DAM, WEAPON DAM, DAM REDUCT and AC from Avatar Shop. Does not include temp affects. 5ma +Dam -0.2ac Avatar Light.

AC = -12.8
Weapon Damage = 27 (Cap is 25)
Damage Reduction = 25 (Cap 25)
Max Strength = 25 (Cap 25)
Max Con = 21 (Cap 24)

<used as light> a glowing bauble with `Gorka` engraved upon on it..It has a soft glowing aura! ()socketed Rhodo Rune()
<worn on finger> the titanium ring of glory..It emits a faint humming sound! ()socketed Chrysoprase Rune()
<worn on finger> the titanium ring of glory..It emits a faint humming sound! ()socketed Chrysoprase Rune()
<worn around neck> ankh of purity (with a golden oak tree charm)
<worn on shoulders> guards of the maul titans (with a golden oak tree charm)
<worn on body> scintillating silken armor ()socketed Alexandrite Rune()
<worn on head> a crimson tri-cornered hat (with the crest of the pirate king attached to it)
<worn on legs> Redsteel Legplates of Hades ()socketed Sardonyx Rune() (with a polished spectrolite
charm attached)
<worn on feet> gleaming dragonscale sabatons ()socketed Rock Crystal Quartz Rune()
<worn on hands> devilskin gauntlets..It has a soft glowing aura! ()socketed Jet Rune()
<worn on arms> the sleeves of the saurian warlord ()socketed Amethyst Rune()
<worn as shield> Walls of Jericho (with a dragon emblem attached to it)
<worn about body> Cloak of Shadows ()socketed Eye Agate Rune() (with a blazing starburst ruby (Hero) attached to it)
<worn about waist> Ancient Cincture of Vigor ()socketed Aventurine()
<worn around wrist> Sacred Bracer of the Dark Order ()socketed Tomb Jade Rune()
<worn around wrist> Sacred Bracer of the Dark Order ()socketed Tomb Jade Rune()
<wielded> Brillant Sword of Valor ()socketed Colorless Sapphire Rune() (with tassle of the guardian attached to it)
<held> Sacred Relic of the High Paladin ()socketed Malachite Rune()

Dam would be about +19 with +25 weapon damage for a total of 44.
With sword damage 5d5 +1 + 4 (Sharpened), max attack damage of about 73.

Comments, and improvements welcome...

Capping damage reduction was difficult with Max Strength. 3x40 eq was mostly unhelpful and the build includes a crap load of drachma (5795). Feet and Shield slots had unhelpful eq options and uninteresting sockets. Still no love for Drachma Warrior Bracers!

I am 9x40 but still about 3000dr, 8 runes, 400b xp short. :lol:
Gimme a G! Gimme a ORKA!
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby Teron » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:11 am

Is this a damage build or a tank build?

It looks like a solo build.

For damage, it lacks demonskin boots.
For tank, swap maul titan guards with Epaulets of the Holy Order, get bonus -dam reduction and 35hps, and bonus hd).

If -dam reduction is worth about -0.1ac, then losing -0.2ac and 40hps for -dam reduction on body isn't worth it.

I'm of the opinion that getting the last 3 max str isn't worth it for solo. Ymmw.

And yeah, not being able to cap max con sucks, however one might argue that it's impossible to cap everything. However, capping maxcon without losing anything useful is hard w/o trying to cap much else.

Maybe if you tell us what the goal of the build is, other than capping everything, and if Josiah replies, we might get to something useful.
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby Gorka » Tue Mar 28, 2017 8:36 am

Teron wrote:Is this a damage build or a tank build? It looks like a solo build. Maybe if you tell us what the goal of the build is, other than capping everything.


Yeah, this build is mostly about capping core stats. It's not the most offensive build, nor is it the most defensive build, but it's well balanced in both. Obviously the more you cap things the more "Ultimate" the warrior is... It's not possible to cap everything at once, but this build is fairly optimum at the expense of some AC points at capping the important things.

Teron wrote:For damage, it lacks demonskin boots.

Correct, could sub those out for a -0.2 ac penalty.

Teron wrote:Swap maul titan guards with Epaulets of the Holy Order.

Would lose MAX_STR cap.

Teron wrote:If -dam reduction is worth about -0.1ac, then losing -0.2ac and 40hps for -dam reduction on body isn't worth it. I'm of the opinion that getting the last 3 max str isn't worth it for solo. Ymmw.


Agree. The point of this exercise though is to highlight and discuss these deficiencies.

It's identified...

* MAX_CON eq issues.
* Shields and Boots are weak stat options outside of having good AC.
* 3x40 eq is mostly useless for warriors outside of AC.
* Dam reduct and MAX_STR eq have questionable advantages for there price and disadvantages.
* At the end of the day, melee damage improvements, isn't going to beat the improvement you can make to your firewind through spellbonus and spell saves eq.
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby alris » Tue Mar 28, 2017 9:56 am

Am I only one who is freaked out by warrior-monk picking + mana avatar light?
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby alris » Tue Mar 28, 2017 10:27 am

I am not sure what you actually mean by "Ultimate" warrior. But oh, well. If you like hoarding eq, you might be interested in making different eq sets for different situations, not merge between damage and ac/reduction.

My favorites:
Armored, lots of ac, with touch of con wherever you can add without losing much of ac. That one is for tanking or second tanking in general group running, exp or small equip ones. Leaders sometimes chose who is tanking simply on the difference of -.2 ac points between two warriors.
I agree with Taron, cuirass totally worth it for ac set.

Solo set, one for running solo, duh. For me it shifted from balance between ac and damage to damage, as I got most of desired equipment at some point and needed set for doing exp runs. I made heavy damage and heavy hitroll (things like +2hitroll rings included) set with dagger for backstabbing, so its mostly +damage, +hit, +Maxstr and touch of weapondamage. Other approaches - handdamage, or spelldamage/saves, whatever works.
There are forged sleeves +dam +maxstr, demonskin boots, and slightly less conventional +damage items, depending on how much ac you are ready to sacrifice.

Hit points set, one that drops ac to around -10/-11 in favor of hit points and con. This one is interesting as it requires quite a lot of knowledge about mobs, to know when you actually need it. Easiest example snow lion, or lucifer(my argument is that it is 1 miss in 5 rounds vs -13 or no misses, but quite easier to heal).
There are good rings and neck for this one, and few other intresting alternatives.
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby Gorka » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:09 am

Thanks for replying Alris. I actually have all those modes you mentioned, but I find them highly specialised with very strong advantages but also major disadvantages. Part of the reasoning behind the Ultimate Warrior is to have a general mode that is pretty optimum in all things.

My current frustration is being the tank in a small group of lesser players. I am stuck in all my heavy armor, the group is healing me, and no one is doing much damage, including me because of all my armor. A warrior in full ac has pretty average damage. Groups run best when they are on the front foot, not the back foot. Damage nearly always wins in sloth.

Regarding the avatar light, It's +5ma regen not + 5ma.
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby Teron » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:27 am

Alris, you need to understand that Gorka seems to prefer solo builds over tanking. Also, since his regen sucks, he gets the most out of taking a +5mr light that gives him 2% boost there (compared to +3mr light 100mr). -0.4ac would get him less, than 2% increase in ac.

I'd take -0.4ac +50hp as a wa/mo.
Though, for my own purposes, as a wa/ne I've taken -0.4 +5mr and I don't even use it in regen, because having +30ma in regen rocks, go figure. It gives me a 9% increase in mana regen in ac standing.

Gorka, I've already mentioned here on the forum that:
- -dam red eq is underrepresented
- we need lots more max con eq/clasps
- max str is not that great.

Coupled with how max dex is done, it seems we could use some improvements in the max stat area.

As Alris said, if you define a goal for a set, then it's easier to max it, and be more useful in it.
It's almost possible to do a workable ac/dam reduction set.
It's also possible to get ac and weap dam for solo.

Getting max str for tanking or damage reduction for killing small mobs seems pointless, though you could get more dr and replace max str with dam reduction or ac/hps to be more sturdy in soloing bigger mobs. This is what I have anyway, an acwd set.

So I don't see value in capping every stat. Why don't you cap wis or fire resistance, while you are at it.

If you truly want to point out missing links, try building good sets for particular goals, then you'll see more missing eq in slots, which you used for eq from other sets, and the new eq that requires 2-3 stats to be useful for balanced gameplay (ie, wd+blast, stab+blast, ac/dam red/maxcon/hp, ac/dam red/wd, etc).

Edit: some sets are meant to have disadvantages, though I agree you can get +8wd -hit for the loss of -0.4ac (assuming you've picked the tooled girdle), which might work for small groups.
Btw, the very same disadvantages scream for new eq with 3-4 stats to accommodate 8 classes and multiple playstyles. EQ with 1-2 stats are the relics of the 4 class system.

E.g., Epaulets of the Holy Order -0.8 +bonus dr +35hp +bonus hd are a good item, which can be used by a tank or a monk - though I'd prefer max con for the lack of it.
Last edited by Teron on Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby Gorka » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:05 pm

So yes, my ultimate warrior perhaps crossed the line trying to be good at too many things. By trying to cap damage reduction, ac had started to suffer. If I compromised on capping damage reduction, that ultimate set was rocking in AC and in Damage.

The eq weak points for warriors are MAX_CON, Dam Reduction, MAX_STR and in that order. At some point in the future I am going to ask the imms to lift a few buying caps in the avatar shop. I think there is a case to change the damage reduction buy cap from 5 to 10, but perhaps the ability to buy more MAX_STATS at rebirth or something. But I want to cap these things first, before I start advocating for it.

It's clear you guys are into Specialisation. Not a surprise, when Taron complained about the number of items in his robe recently. But specialisation is not better than generalisation, it is just different. Specialisation is expensive, uses more resources, tends to have higher advantages but also higher disadvantages. Generalisation isn't popular these days, but it gives the most value for the cheapest dollar and often stands stronger in the face of an opponents specialisation - than a specialist in his weak spot.

"Specialisation" is interesting, because the world is hooked on this... I read a study recently about people who work for Google. Obviously people who work for Google are very smart (the best) and more often than not specialists... but the study exposed interesting problems centered around the fact that "specialists" often don't work well with other "specialists." Basically they have discovered that things work better when you have a "Generalist" between the two "Specialists" if you want a better outcome. Generalists tend to actually be a very important and under rated function in the effectiveness of a group.

There is a saying "Jack of all trades, master of none." Sums up my thinking about Gorka.
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby alris » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:17 pm

It's +5ma regen not + 5ma.

And that makes it SOOO much better. I still firm in my opinion that light should be +2 damage +anything. Whatever.

You run in your solo/damage set when in small group. You only need all the heavy armor when chopping or in group of 6+ players. In 2-3 size group I would run in my -9 ac set on almost anything.

Of course specialization is better than generalization. In sloth being generalist does not mean you have only one eq set, it means you can deal with any type of problem presented. And that might require a lot of flexibility. If you want to run stab mobs on lyme, you would prefer high damage over medium ac/damage. If you go in 10 member group tanking, its better to have -13 low damage, than -12 with medium damage. If you want do subdue_Tiamat solo, it would probably require some anti-damage eq. Its all down to what mobs you are dealing with. Its not wrong to have balanced solo set, but specialization is good.

Also, whats wrong with maxing fire resistance? I would take max fire resist over max con in damage/max str in ac anyday. (And I do have maxed wis in regen set. Probably)
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby Teron » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:28 am

Alris, why would a tank, oriented towards tanking large mobs/groups, would need +2dam over -0.4ac +50hp, while you've just said that you need max ac in big groups?
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Re: Wa/Mo Ultimate Warrior Build

Postby alris » Thu Mar 30, 2017 12:55 pm

If he is a tank, oriented towards tanking large mobs/groups, then what is actual point of this conversation? As I just said, he would only need ac in big groups. Now as somehow we are talking about NOT max ac eq set, I wonder why he did not pick +2dam light as it's obviously cool.
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