Possible Warrior Skills

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Possible Warrior Skills

Postby 12345 » Tue Nov 02, 2004 12:51 pm

Since I'm thinking on weapons....

There's been a genuine effort to 1) give warriors more skills and 2) make normal weapons compete with proc weapons. Along those lines, I offer the following:

Skill Off-Hand Attack: Allows you to remove shield and wield a second weapon. Weapon must be a backstab weapon (can't think of another way to assure using a 'smaller' weapon in off-hand). Neither weapon can be two-handed or be a proc weapon. Cannot stab with the stabbing weapon (at least not without severe penalties, it's your off-hand). Bonuses for each weapon would need to be calculated independantly. Attacks with off-handed weapon are done at a penalty. Allows an additional attack in primarily non-tank situtations.

Skill Florentine Fighting: Same as above, only both hands must carry the SAME weapon. Allows you to upgrade the weapon in your off hand to a larger, more damaging weapon.

Skill Off-Handed Mastery (optional/Avatar?): Removes the penalty to your off-hand.

Something to kick around. Suggestions/improvements/criticism/flames appreciated.
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Postby Alexdmage » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:33 am

Imho, warriors lately are already given some good skills. Time to think about other classes. Your suggestion about two-weapon fighting is not bad, but i would prefer that instead of giving bonuses for not using shield to warriors, our immortals would give them to monks. Just imagining monk using shield and punching enemy with one hand and even making deathgrip one-handed makes me feel sick... How about giving another extra attack to monk w/o shield? Or giving more bonuses for Str and etc, like with warriors two-handed weapon? Tho maybe monks should receive bonuses for Dex instead of Str...
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Postby Alberich » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:52 am

[quote="Alexdmage":1bk37ru3]Imho, warriors lately are already given some good skills. Time to think about other classes. [/quote:1bk37ru3]

warriors still have less usefull skills than pretty much any other class

[quote="alexdmage":1bk37ru3]\Your suggestion about two-weapon fighting is not bad, but i would prefer that instead of giving bonuses for not using shield to warriors, our immortals would give them to monks. [/quote:1bk37ru3]

you mean dam reduction, and hand damge are not enough of bonuses?

[quote="alexdmage":1bk37ru3]Just imagining monk using shield and punching enemy with one hand and even making deathgrip one-handed makes me feel sick... [/quote:1bk37ru3]

and holding a light, a held low, a sword, a shield, and stuff in inv doesn't?

[quote="alexdmage":1bk37ru3]How about giving another extra attack to monk w/o shield? Or giving more bonuses for Str and etc, like with warriors two-handed weapon? Tho maybe monks should receive bonuses for Dex instead of Str...[/quote:1bk37ru3]

dex? why? monks roll con first
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Postby Weasel » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:59 am

nods, and of the few skills warriors have, berserk costs 2.0ac, so the only time a warrior really ever uses this is when in a group and not tanking or even 2.tanking.
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Postby Alexdmage » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:02 am

Hmm, Alberich, I know you are avatar and all, but... No offence taken, ok?

Main purpose of a warrior class is not in having bunch of cool skills but rather in their ability to equip best eq and most hp of all classes. And if warrior is not tanking he can deal a lot of damage with his normal attacks (4 attacks, frenzy, berserk, criticals and two-hander) while using other class's abilities like firewinds or restorations. I don't think that anything else should be added.

Probably eq with hand damage bonuses can make monks attacks very powerfull, but I still think that warrior will deal more. (btw will warrior/monk benefit from berserk and criticals when fighting bare-handed?)

And I don't care what monks roll 1st, imms probably decided to make so that for each stat there is at least one class that rolls it 1st, and who besides monks is suitable for that? Bards maybe? Don't make me laugh.

Even if monks have enough damage with bonuses, Dex can be used to give them +hit.

And yes, I think that's it's unrealistic to hold items, wear bunch of eq, wield weapon, carry tons of items in robe and still be able to move (not mentioning fighting). Well, not only Sloth have this problem. At the same time using shield and fist in fight is quite rare.
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Postby Alberich » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:15 am

dex cannot give them +hit, str does :p

it would make more sense to give monks their innate dam reduction bonus based on their con roll - base dam reduction of +3, adding +1 for every point after 15, like all the other stats. (as an example - I have absolutly no idea what monks base nat dam reduction is)
Don't be stupid - we have politicians for that

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Postby 12345 » Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:49 am

[quote="Alexdmage":1a3rhip4]Probably eq with hand damage bonuses can make monks attacks very powerfull, but I still think that warrior will deal more. (btw will warrior/monk benefit from berserk and criticals when fighting bare-handed?)[/quote:1a3rhip4]
I didn't think we were talking about monks... but ok. Strike is almost like having another attack. A monk does more damage barehands than most weapons, and +handdam only helps in this regard. Deathgrip is comperable to backstab, and prime monks aren't even slowed down by ether mobs. A warrior/monk is very powerful, and may choose to go without a weapon entirely, while wearing every piece of equipment imaginable.

[quote="Alexdmage":1a3rhip4]Even if monks have enough damage with bonuses, Dex can be used to give them +hit.[/quote:1a3rhip4]
Wha? Unless your version of Sloth is based on Rifts somehow... no. Strength gives some +hit bonuses though.

[quote="Alexdmage":1a3rhip4]And yes, I think that's it's unrealistic to hold items, wear bunch of eq, wield weapon, carry tons of items in robe and still be able to move (not mentioning fighting). Well, not only Sloth have this problem. At the same time using shield and fist in fight is quite rare.[/quote:1a3rhip4]
This has been a mystery for as long as the game has existed. Other games like Diablo use a concept of beltspace. I've even seen a couple muds that use 'floating' items that simply float in place and follow you arround. This added an interesting twist to cursed items since they could simply jump out of your inventory and equip themselves. It's a separate issue.

As far as off handed weapons, it will generally cost a warrior about +1.0/1.1 AC to unequip a shield. More if it has +dex. Assuming you get the skill in the 20s, you're looking at a ~blue glass dagger +dam in ~70% of the combat rounds. You're also loosing any cone of cold, curse, blindness, demon swarm, lightning bolts, etc that you might already be weilding. On the plus side, procs can be unpredictable and a second weapon does more reliable damage. As an option, it could even give bonuses to parry, or perhaps even an additional parry if the gods are feeling especially generous.
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Postby Alexdmage » Wed Nov 03, 2004 10:23 am

Ppl, my phrase about dex giving +hit was not a statement but suggestion. :)

I generally agree with your posts tho. And btw strike is more powerful then additional attack but you lose a chance to cast a spell when using it. I'm generally using strike when trying to preserve mana.

Just for info: i was testing strike a day before - it deals about 60 damage with my +3 dam on 37 Mo quad. Not sure about chance to hit tho. You can only use 1 strike per round. (or you can cast a spell and then use strike half the time - same system as with 1 or 2 casts, but you cannot strike and cast a spell AFTER that)
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Postby 12345 » Wed Nov 03, 2004 11:35 am

In another regard, it would seem that proc weapons were originally intended for caster types who only get 1 attack per round. While this isn't a bad idea, it works even better with more attacks. Encouraging warrior types to use standard weapons, thieves to use backstab weapons, monks to use hands and caster types to use proc weapons + magic actually works to balance things out. I'm ignoring bards for the moment because I have no idea how they work.

Also, strike is a great skill. I like it. Since it doesn't work with weapons, the only effect these skills could have would be to encourage warrior/monks to wield weapons instead of going barehanded. They would still have damage reduction, etc, so there is still value in the combination.

I can also see some interesting possiblities in the warrior/thief arena. It would be generous to give bonuses to stabbing with 2 stabbers wielded. This could perhaps help put warrior/thief on a par with warrior/monk.

Or not. Who knows?
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Postby Altair » Fri Nov 05, 2004 12:43 pm

Nah, proc weapons were created for people who can't blast the ethereal mob the group is fighting. And for when the group is out of mana in that same mob. "Cmon cmon cmon where is a magic missile when you need one!"
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